Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[Az_Rael]

Nice. Maybe since they keep messing with the webpage we will get some clarity soon. I am more hopeful now.

 

[WilliamZ]

New member here.

Tesla changed the wording again. 5-Star Safety Rating is back, but wording a little different. And it now just says Supercharging, not capable. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I take that to mean included now.

• 
  Designed to achieve
  5-Star Safety Rating
  
  
• Supercharging

I hate when they play game like this. Treat customers like idiots.

 

[ZAKEEUS]

That is only true if people actually use $2000 worth of supercharging. The abuse of superchargers is way overplayed. A lot of us plan on having home charging ready to go when their model 3 is delivered. They are currently working on doubling the amount of superchargers before the Model 3 is released, at some point the building of new superchargers will slow down and the main cost associated with them will be electricity and maintenance.

 

[loganthefirst]

dead horse extremely well beaten, over and over again.

Reading this discussion right now...

 

[Snow Drift]

What if Tesla made software that denied access to a supercharger within 100 miles of your home? That would prevent abuse, unless you commute 100mi+ one way, which I'd think is rare.

 

[WilliamZ]

What if Tesla made software that denied access to a supercharger within 100 miles of your home? That would prevent abuse, unless you commute 100mi+ one way, which I'd think is rare.

Not all people can charge at home, or office.

 

[Snow Drift]

Not all people can charge at home, or office.

Then you need to use pay for use chargers like ChargePoint. You can't use the supercharger network for your commute. That doesn't make sense. Like getting gas for free to get groceries. The whole idea is to have at home charging and eventually off the grid solar at home.

 

[MP3Mike]

I always thought the Supercharger access was $2000 for the S60? Supercharger requires some type of authentication. I don't think that's the case for CHAdeMO or CCS so it doesn't make sense to block them out too without paying up front in addition to paying for each use.

Would be funny to see how other EV owners will react once all the CHAdeMO DCFCs are taken up by Model 3 owners. Considering the CHAdeMO adapter is now $450, not sure if a ton of Model 3 adopters will go that route unless Supercharger travel is really daunting.

For the Model 60 Supercharging at time of purchase was $2,000, which enabled DC fast charging and Supercharger access. If you didn't pay for Supercharging when you bought it you had two options:

• $1,900 to enable DC fast charging hardware (So you could use the CHAdeMO adapter, but still not Supercharge.)
• $2,500 to enabled DC fast charging hardware and Supercharging. ($500 extra as a change fee.)

If you take that all together it would appear that Supercharging access actually costs $600. ($2,500 - $1,900 for enabling DC fast charging.)

Note: People say that the DC fast charge enabling includes the $500 change fee, but I don't know if they would let people enable it at original time of purchase for $1,400. (Probably not because I don't think the CHAdeMO adapter existed at that time.)

 

[Bimbels]

What if Tesla made software that denied access to a supercharger within 100 miles of your home? That would prevent abuse, unless you commute 100mi+ one way, which I'd think is rare.

This was discussed previously - you cannot always avoid your "local" supercharger. Sometimes you don't want to. It's not just about commuting, but also any long road trip. I could go into examples where I needed to stop at my local SC (which is about 20 miles from my house) at the end of a road trip, but it would be too long winded.

And my commute is 180 miles one way. In the winter, I have definitely needed to make 2 charging stops, sometimes one of those stops is at my local SC. This is because I charge more often for a shorter amount of time, which is more efficient and a better use of time.

 

[eloder]

There is another angle no one brought up, but something I had pondered about a long while back (since release of CHAdeMO adapter). With the prevalence of CHAdeMO and CCS growing (with Tesla joining the CCS group CharIN as a core member), it would be interesting to see if DC charging capability is included in the Model 3.

For the S60, DC charging hardware activation costs $1400, then you add the cost of the CHAdeMO adapter. Now Tesla says "supercharger capable" for the Model 3; if that also means DC charging capable, then presumably you can just buy a CHadeMO adapter (or CCS when Tesla comes out with that) and use that for DC charging for no further activation fee. This would be separate from supercharger activation.

While most DC charging are options in EVs today (like Leaf and Spark), it is standard for some (i3 and e-Golf).

I don't think Elon would want to suggest chademo as a primary means of charging a Model 3. Frequent broken stations, 1-2 stalls per location, and very slow and variable speeds will all contribute to a sub-par charging experience. Consumers and the media can very easily peg these charging network problems as a Model 3 problem (just like how the media and non-owners like to forget that home charging exists).

 

[FlatSix911]

Yes, I thought it was $2K for SC at purchase and $2.5K after purchase.

You are correct, the charge is $2.5K after purchase. Available on 60 kWh only and not available on 40 kWh cars.

 

[jchau]

Any ideas how much it would cost to fully charge at a SC if they went to a pay per use system?

 

[shade_tree]

Personally I think it will suck if not included with price and/or they don't offer a per charge fee. I mean if I plan to use it mostly around home 95% of the time, it would still be nice to use a super charger on a road trip without renting a car if I didn't want to pony up the thousand dollar plus one time fee

 

[trigga71]

If its pay per use just buy a Bolt...or LEAF...or i3

Part of the Tesla experience it literally backing into a SC spot, grabbing the SC handle hitting the button while watching in amazement your charge port open, plug-in and walk away to enjoy your day then coming back to be greeted by other Tesla owners!!

 

[rhambus]

I'd like to see a pay-per-minute scheme for the M3, without any flat fee. It could even be a pay from your phone scheme, or the car knows what supercharger it's at and for how long and just bills your CC at the end of the month. But I think it's vital that there be some penalty to leaving your car plugged into the thing longer than necessary, or people are going to just leave the thing there and go have lunch and come back an hour and a half later, while others wait. Maybe free for the first 30 min, then a reasonably steep charge per minute? Or cheap for the first 30 and then not cheap later.

 

[tkizzy]

What if Tesla made software that denied access to a supercharger within 100 miles of your home? That would prevent abuse, unless you commute 100mi+ one way, which I'd think is rare.

What if you want to drive up to Napa for the weekend? 60+ miles there, 60+miles there, if you do any "fun" driving, you'll need to charge to be able to get home. That's an untenable solution that removes the value that Supercharging presents.

 

[tkizzy]

New member here.

Tesla changed the wording again. 5-Star Safety Rating is back, but wording a little different. And it now just says Supercharging, not capable. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I take that to mean included now.

• 
  Designed to achieve
  5-Star Safety Rating
  
  
• Supercharging

Maybe they read this thread and saw eye to eye with the argument for including it

The problem with not charging a usage fee, is that it creates a large, unfunded, future liability.

AFAICT, the Supercharger fees charged Explicitly and later Hidden in the Model S, and Model X, simply ended up in general revenues.

There is no large fund being created to support future supercharger usage/maintenance.

.

In addition to some observations that average supercharging costs are not as much as some assume here, and less utilized than imagined.

You're forgetting the long game. As solar energy becomes more and more prevalent, it will become cheaper and cheaper. Don't forget about Solar City and the potential for synergies there. On an infinite timescale energy won't cost Tesla anything, and in the interim it's a HUGE competitive advantage and marketing opportunity.

It's not like Tesla is penny pinching everywhere making it day by day...they're investing all their profits in HUGE infrastructure for the purpose of Huge growth and huge growth demands capital. Their goal is to change the world, and they're only going to do that with huge growth and forcing the competition to do this whole EV thing anyway.

As for the infinite timescale argument....Elon musk is just the kind of Crazy idealistic superhero CEO who thinks this way. The question is what will come first - the first colonial Mars Transporter? or ubiquitous dirt cheap solar energy? Elon's got his stake in the ground for both.

 

[ohmman]

If its pay per use just buy a Bolt...or LEAF...or i3

Part of the Tesla experience it literally backing into a SC spot, grabbing the SC handle hitting the button while watching in amazement your charge port open, plug-in and walk away to enjoy your day then coming back to be greeted by other Tesla owners!!

I'm sorry but that's not "part of the Tesla experience." Maybe at Superchargers near you there's no congestion right now. But we're talking about situations where there is congestion. Plugging in, walking away, and "enjoying your day" is not the intended use for the system. That's the definition of misuse. The intended use is for enabling long distance travel.

I'd reword your posting in the way I personally see it, which is:

If it's pay per use you still get ultra fast charging that enables long distance travel - unlike a Bolt...or LEAF...or i3

Part of the Tesla experience is being able to take your car on a long trip, even across the country, finding Supercharger spots available when you arrive at them, backing in, charging, and continuing to enjoy your trip.

Superchargers have enabled me to take road trips up and down the West Coast. They've displaced our need for an ICE (we're done with them) and have even displaced what would have been air travel. I'd like for everyone to enjoy that kind of freedom - I don't like hearing people say they're taking their ICE because they're afraid of congestion.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I always thought the Supercharger access was $2000 for the S60? Supercharger requires some type of authentication. I don't think that's the case for CHAdeMO or CCS so it doesn't make sense to block them out too without paying up front in addition to paying for each use.

Would be funny to see how other EV owners will react once all the CHAdeMO DCFCs are taken up by Model 3 owners. Considering the CHAdeMO adapter is now $450, not sure if a ton of Model 3 adopters will go that route unless Supercharger travel is really daunting.

Yes, I thought it was $2K for SC at purchase and $2.5K after purchase.

Mike already beat me to it. Sorry my wording was not that clear. If you wanted only CHAdeMO charging activation and not supercharging on the S60, you can get it for $1400. For $2000, gets you supercharging activation also. There is an additional $500 change fee on top if you get this after the car has been produced.

The CHAdeMO adapter for $450 would be separate from this. Back then I speculated the CCS adapter would be much less expensive (similar to the $95 J1772 adapter).

 

[TslaIsFuture]

Charge $2k for base battery and include in larger batter options. Simplest and cheapest way to deal with the supercharging. Tesla should not change a thing. And don't be naive....the supercharging cost is "built in" to the larger battery options (it is not a separate clear as day fee). I have to chuckle at those who want Tesla to totally change their mission statement/vision/promise and charge a "fee per use", due to the extremely small number of Tesla users who "abuse" (as a percentage, which won't change significantly when model 3s are on the road). There will always be those who abuse and those who pay for supercharging and will never use.

IF the base model 3 includes supercharging for "free" as the updated website suggests....again it is most likely already built into the price.

The supercharging infrastructure will be doubled by end of 2017 and it will NOT end there. Superchargers will continue to be built and upgraded....please do not forget that.