Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[Dave Garaffa]

Yes, that, and an additional $ per minute (past a certain maximum time or charge) to make sure people remove their vehicles from the charging station on time. Since it takes a while to charge, people tend to wander off (lunch, shopping, etc.) leaving the car there.

Yea this is where if we had snake chargers the car could charge and un-plug automatically and then the car could pull out and park in the next closest ordinary parking spot. Tho I could see issues with handicap spots and 'open spots' that are in fact 'reserved for XXX' and or no open sports at all etc. So yea that is still an issue.

 

[TaoJones]

According to Tesla Model 3 Reservation Holder Survey Tells An Exciting Tale, in a talk by a Tesla VP a few days ago he said that the “free forever charging model is sustainable."

Exactly - and he's not the only one.

And to those who volunteer the wallets of others, kindly read the last paragraph of this: What wasn't said.

 

[bmenius]

I'm having difficulty putting much stock in anything we're hearing this far ahead of the launch. I spent two years chasing an Audi S3 and ended up frustrated and let down. Given that Audi is an established manufacturer and Tesla is much more likely to engage in self-admitted “hubris,” I think it best to keep expectations low.

I read a fairly rational, if not overly pessimistic, piece today about the issues Musk will have getting the Gigafactory up and running. The deck is stacked against him, and I'm trying not to let myself get too high on what's been promised so far.

 

[jsrawa]

I'm having difficulty putting much stock in anything we're hearing this far ahead of the launch. I spent two years chasing an Audi S3 and ended up frustrated and let down. Given that Audi is an established manufacturer and Tesla is much more likely to engage in self-admitted “hubris,” I think it best to keep expectations low.

I read a fairly rational, if not overly pessimistic, piece today about the issues Musk will have getting the Gigafactory up and running. The deck is stacked against him, and I'm trying not to let myself get too high on what's been promised so far.

That's kind of depressing. Peoples expectations are high and they seem to forget that a $35,000 car simply can't have it all. Concept cars and prototypes often get dumbed down for production. I love what they've shown but only time will tell what they can actually deliver.

 

[Pando]

Closest SC for me is 30 miles away (as of this writing), and it's nowhere near to where I commute every day. So the $2000 additional for SC isn't appealing for me. This equals to about 5 years worth of total electricity costs for what I'm driving.

However, once or twice a year I might take a trip or two where I will be close to SC and need to charge up. Not having a Pay Per Use option available for me would be silly.

 

[freeewilly]

I think supercharging should be charged for the same rate as people charged at home. So people use it when necessary, but not due to save money. It benefits everyone, for people without charger at home, they can use supercharging to charge, it cost the same.
For travelers, they don't have to wait hours for locals to charge.

For all M3 owners, the benefit of charge the car to 80% in 30 minutes.

 

[HanSolo]

I'm having difficulty putting much stock in anything we're hearing this far ahead of the launch. I spent two years chasing an Audi S3 and ended up frustrated and let down. Given that Audi is an established manufacturer and Tesla is much more likely to engage in self-admitted “hubris,” I think it best to keep expectations low.

I read a fairly rational, if not overly pessimistic, piece today about the issues Musk will have getting the Gigafactory up and running. The deck is stacked against him, and I'm trying not to let myself get too high on what's been promised so far.

While I have a Model 3 reserved, I am very skeptical that Tesla is going to be around for a long time. There is going to be massive challenges in getting that Gigafactory up and running smoothly, and those striking contractors right now are just the start. Everything has to go exactly right for Tesla to survive, and that does not happen. It will not take long for investors to get spooked if we get 2 or 3 issues happen at inopportune times. If that happens, it is over. Best case scenario if that were to occur is one of the major car companies would snap Tesla up at a discount.

 

[eloder]

Doesn't say anything about it being a free service though. I feel like it should cost $10 per charge or some similar scheme to prevent moochers.

Making supercharging more costly than gas in some vehicles is a silly idea.

I'm not opposed to charging to charge, but I am opposed to being pressured to rent a Prius for a roadtrip if gas prices are low enough.

 

[Jersey Shore Tom]

Closest SC for me is 30 miles away (as of this writing), and it's nowhere near to where I commute every day. So the $2000 additional for SC isn't appealing for me (this equals to about 5 years worth of electricity costs for what I'm driving).

However, once or twice a year I might take a trip or two where I will be close to SC and need to charge up. Not having a Pay Per Use option available for me would be silly.

A pay per use system requires Tesla to front the capital to build out the Supercharger network and the day to day overhead until you decide to take your twice a year trip. Your small payment when you use doesn't encourage Tesla to build out the network. As far as Tesla is concerned it is not much different than including it in the price of the car.

From an administrative and marketing perspective including "free" charging in the price of the car just makes more sense. Right now I believe Tesla includes Supercharging cost in their marketing budget. Think about it, a 30 second Super Bowl ad costs $5 Million for the air time and probably another million to produce. I've seen estimates that Superchargers cost ~$150,000. So 1 Super Bowl ad = 40 Superchargers.

GM sold about 3 million vehicles last year in the US and spent about $3 Billion on ads in the US. That works out to ~$1,000 per vehicle. Based on Tesla's filings that is more than Tesla is currently accounting for per vehicle to pay for the Supercharging network. For now at least why would Tesla even consider changing?

Charging directly for Supercharging simply is not necessary for the foreseeable future. Unless of course you think Tesla need to buy ads to drive demand sometime soon.

 

[Bimbels]

While I have a Model 3 reserved, I am very skeptical that Tesla is going to be around for a long time. There is going to be massive challenges in getting that Gigafactory up and running smoothly, and those striking contractors right now are just the start. Everything has to go exactly right for Tesla to survive, and that does not happen. It will not take long for investors to get spooked if we get 2 or 3 issues happen at inopportune times. If that happens, it is over. Best case scenario if that were to occur is one of the major car companies would snap Tesla up at a discount.

I hear what you're saying....but Tesla has been saved before by outside money (Including from Elon's own pocket, I believe,) and with the overwhelming interest shown for the Model 3, I don't see Tesla failing - should they get into trouble (which I don't think they will) they will get outside money again. That's just my idealistic opinion.

 

[ikjadoon]

No offense to OP, but we already have a thread on this topic, with many of these same arguments debated and critiqued:

Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

The mods already merged 2-3 threads into that main one, so maybe we can just help them and move our discussion there.

 

[chargeshare]

It changed somewhere between the 2nd and the 9th.

Model 3 | Tesla Motors

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

As an owner of a Model S to me what separates Tesla apart from the other manufactures is the charging works, and is fast.

To me that's what matters most. There no fiddling around with RFID tags, or Chademo adapters. There is no plugging it in, and hoping it works. 99.9% of the time it just works without hassle. If you look on plugshare the Tesla superchargers are always rated really high, and everything else is pretty much crap.

For the Model S they've already committed to it being free for the life of the car. To my knowledge they haven't locked into this with the Model 3. I actually do hope they charge for the Model 3 to give a little more separation to the Model S. To be perfectly honest a Model 3 as it stands now would perfectly match what I want. So why would I pay more for a Model S?

The other reason for charging is Tesla in a lot of ways is becoming an Energy company. You have the batteries, and then you have the powerwall. We're entering into a world of self driving cars where there won't be a need for a lot of people to buy a car. So how do you make money? On the consumables and energy is the consumable.

I also don't feel as if Tesla will be able to rollout supercharger fast enough to prevent massive lines at superchargers if it's free for the Model 3. It's already bad enough with just the Model S in California.

 

[Canuck]

I read the evolution of Tesla's Model 3 Supercharging wording as being more restrictive rather than less. They first said: "Supercharging Long Distant Travel"... that's clearly the best -- no ambiguity -- I buy the car and I expect to be able to do long distant travel based on this statement. But then they made it "Supercharging Capable". I see this as more restrictive -- so in others words, you may not be able to do long distant travel, as first told, and even "capable", although it sounds good, is ambiguous since you probably need to pay to make it "capable". So then they drop "capable" and just say "Supercharging". If people read this to mean "Free Supercharging", and that's what Tesla means, then why not just say it? To me, what is unsaid speaks volumes.

According to Tesla Model 3 Reservation Holder Survey Tells An Exciting Tale, in a talk by a Tesla VP a few days ago he said that the “free forever charging model is sustainable."

Where's the "free forever charging model"? Tesla has never had it for the Model S as far as I am aware. When I bought, it was $2,500 extra if you bought the 60 kWh battery, and "included" in the price increase for the 85 kWh. To my knowledge, Tesla's never backed out this $2,500 supercharging fee from the Model S since that time -- they just changed the wording. I doubt I will use the $2,500 included in the price of my car in the electricity I use at Superchargers so I don't consider it free. I consider that I made an upfront payment for use.

Also, just because a Tesla VP says something, don't believe it will happen. For that matter, just because Elon Musk tells us something, don't always believe it will happen...

Tesla CEO says they will upgrade Model S browser to Chrome, will add Android emulator to car

 

[Red Sage]

Tesla had already done free superchargers in large cities, like Hong Kong, but they quickly become overwhelmed.

You have repeatedly posted this line or similar ones. Strangely, you have never acknowledged that not once has Tesla Motors 'solution' been to make them paid sites. Instead, the solutions that are often employed are:

1) Expand existing locations
2) Add more Supercharger sites nearby
3) Hire a Tesla Valet to move cars as they reach a full charge, and move others into place​

These have all worked just fine. Explain why it won't keep working.

 

[frozenpenguin]

Supercharging is going to be standard & free for life on the Model 3. No doubt in my mind at all. If not, they are going to have a lot of pissed off potential customers based on what Elon stated at the reveal and what the website says.

 

[KJD]

3) Hire a Tesla Valet to move cars as they reach a full charge, and move others into place​

These have all worked just fine. Explain why it won't keep working.

How about we ask Tesla owners to act like adults and move their own car out of the way as soon as the charge is complete.

Tesla as a company needs to have every resource they have working on making the Model 3 the best car in the world. To waste precious resources on paying someone to park cars is just not what we need right now.

 

[Tiberius]

It would be nice but honestly I'd rather not get my hopes up. I'm looking at free supercharging the same way as the tax credit... it would be nice but I'm not counting on it until it's confirmed.

 

[Canuck]

Supercharging is going to be standard & free for life on the Model 3. No doubt in my mind at all. If not, they are going to have a lot of pissed off potential customers based on what Elon stated at the reveal and what the website says.

I guess a lot of people will be pissed off too that the website says "Autopilot hardware" but you don't get autopilot unless you pay for it (except for the safety features).

But more importantly, since you are so confident that you know Tesla's intentions, how do you explain Tesla not just putting this issue to rest by saying "Free Supercharging"? That would be huge. It would encourage even more reservations. Or at a minimum, why doesn't Elon just tweet back, Supercharging will be FREE on the Model 3? He tweets about most everything. Doesn't the silence give you at least some reason to pause rather than being so categorical on this issue?

 

[Red Sage]

Tesla as a company needs to have every resource they have working on making the Model 3 the best car in the world. To waste precious resources on paying someone to park cars is just not what we need right now.

We can only hope that the robot they hire to do valet parking some day has a better personality than Bender.