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Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion
- Thread starter rnelsonee
- Start date
frozenpenguin
Member
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Please cite your source where he said the clear statement that "Supercharging is included"?
He said at the reveal:
"Then with respect to Supercharging, all Model 3’s will come with Supercharging, standard."
Middle of page 4:
http://bypgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Transcript-on-BYP-letterhead.pdf
Sirius/XM is standard in a lot of vehicles, but you have to pay to use it.
I just wish Tesla or Elon would say "Free Supercharging" for the Model 3. It would sure clear things up -- not to mention get them even more reservations -- which is why it's so puzzling if it is in fact free. Until I hear that, the jury is out with me.
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I don't see it. If Tesla owners are using the superchargers for their intended purpose, than making it pay per use for the Model Ξ won't have any impact on congestion at the chargers. If I and my model Ξ, are away from home, I will have no choice but to use a charger. If it is crowded, I will wait. The fact that I am going to pay per use, rather than all at once, is irrelevant.
The only time that it will make a difference is if Tesla owners are using the chargers for local charging, i.e. when they have a choice. Are you claiming that you and the other Model S owners are doing that?
Thank you kindly.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Lets look at this from a different perspective. Do you guys really want free supercharging access? What we know about human behavior and economics is that people will overutilize and misutilize a resource when there is no economic cost to using it. When we are out driving extended distances, the last thing you will want is having to wait a very long time to charge your vehicle enough to get back home. I took it as every M3 will have supercharging capabilities, but it may not be free to actually use a supercharger. I would prefer a pay to use structure that would depend on how much juice you used. There is a Tesla station at a local mall to me and I always notice that it is always clogged when I pass by it. When I come back to pick someone up, I notice the exact same Teslas are still parked with the charger hooked in.
What about congestion pricing? Before you "dislike me into oblivion", hear me out.
Free when they're wide open, even if you're a local. Even if you're parking overnight, and nobody shows up. However, once the chargers have filled, any cars done charging will send an alert to the owners' phones and give them 10 minutes. Then billing begins. That's it, for starters. If that doesn't relieve blockage, they can dial it back and start billing at anything over 90% charge.
Issues with the proposal - Tesla needs to know when they have Supercharger issues. Bean counting is required. @Red Sage gets furious about my recommendation. But there is some upside to it. It still upholds the promise of free long distance travel, and it keeps people from blocking valuable parking spots.
Free when they're wide open, even if you're a local. Even if you're parking overnight, and nobody shows up. However, once the chargers have filled, any cars done charging will send an alert to the owners' phones and give them 10 minutes. Then billing begins. That's it, for starters. If that doesn't relieve blockage, they can dial it back and start billing at anything over 90% charge.
Issues with the proposal - Tesla needs to know when they have Supercharger issues. Bean counting is required. @Red Sage gets furious about my recommendation. But there is some upside to it. It still upholds the promise of free long distance travel, and it keeps people from blocking valuable parking spots.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
I agree with this. Tesla has a lot of supporters, some of them very well financed, that I think would help out in hard times. Hell, I'd cut them a personal check if they were in trouble. I could maybe see their size being limited if things get more difficult, but I don't think there is much risk of the business going under anytime soon.I hear what you're saying....but Tesla has been saved before by outside money (Including from Elon's own pocket, I believe,) and with the overwhelming interest shown for the Model 3, I don't see Tesla failing - should they get into trouble (which I don't think they will) they will get outside money again. That's just my idealistic opinion.
As for whether there will be a fee to enable supercharging, I could see it. Because it makes a certain amount of sense. The primary goal of this car is keeping the cost down. So why not offer it cheaper to those who don't need or want supercharging? Why bake in a cost someone doesn't need in a car where cost is critical? If $2K is baked in, it means Tesla could have offered it for $33K. If it's not baked in, then that means a supercharger enabled car might be $37K, but at least you are getting a full $35K worth of car, if you want to look at it from a positive viewpoint.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
For me, yes. For everyone else, no.
Let's face it, free supercharging for Model 3 owners is not something that I bet the vast majority of Model S owners want -- even those with Model 3 reservations like me. I want a pay per use system for my Model 3 because I just can't see how it will be possible for Tesla to build enough SC's, especially when it comes to the peak holiday drive times. I don't want to wait in line while trying to get home after a long weekend away -- then have to wait to charge. As it is, my wife sighs when we have to charge and I only supercharge enough to get me home from a trip but we all know what the vast majority of our species are like when something is free. We evolved this way as a species, and if you're reading this, your DNA is from ancestors who got what little there was in the past, while others perished. It's innate in us to be selfish unless not being selfish advances our own goals, which is really just being selfish. Of course, we can rise against our instincts, but most people don't and superchargers will be no exception. Tesla should just make the cost the same as at home. That way, there's no incentive to use it when not travelling, or to "top up" when coming home. Perhaps there's some laws that prohibit selling power this way but that's what I'd like to see.
Supercharging has never been free--its no more free than the maintenance the comes with a BMW or Mercedes. What Tesla did do with the S60 is unbundle it for a while to help get the price down since that was the entry level model. I would expect the a similar approach with the the Model 3: supercharging is a bundled in the bigger battery and an option on the smaller battery. I think if they can get vehicle COGS down they may bundle it into all variants as they have done with the Model S and Model X.
I would be happy to see all Model 3s come bundled with Supercharging because that means that all of them are paying in to support the system and we will see faster expansion of the SC network. I keep seeing all this FUD about a wave of Model 3 owners clogging the system. This line of reasoning always seem rooted in elitism to me, but if we look beyond that, there seems to be a contingent of folks that seem intent on predicting the imminent collapse of the SC system. I think if you polled folks that actually use the system on a regular basis, they would say it works pretty well and Tesla manages to identify and resolve systemic issues as noted up-thread.
I would be happy to see all Model 3s come bundled with Supercharging because that means that all of them are paying in to support the system and we will see faster expansion of the SC network. I keep seeing all this FUD about a wave of Model 3 owners clogging the system. This line of reasoning always seem rooted in elitism to me, but if we look beyond that, there seems to be a contingent of folks that seem intent on predicting the imminent collapse of the SC system. I think if you polled folks that actually use the system on a regular basis, they would say it works pretty well and Tesla manages to identify and resolve systemic issues as noted up-thread.
JoeCoolMan24
Member
What part of Indiana? There are at least 3 that shop at the Costco in NW Indiana.
Thalass
Model 3 reserved zomg
I like the idea, but since Tesla already know when you use a supercharger perhaps it should be a bit more like this: If you use the same charger, especially one near your home, more than a couple of times a month then that is when they start billing you. In addition to billing people who leave their car parked for hours while hogging the charger.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Yet again... The problem was that people were spending inordinate amounts of time in parking stalls at busy Supercharger locations -- WITHOUT CHARGING. They might have been hooked up, but their cars were FULL. They had NO NEED of the Supercharger whatsoever. They were being [FARGIN' BASTIDGE ICEHOLES] and blocking the spaces from others who needed a legitimate charge.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Yes. For me, and everyone else. To quote a line from Chris Rock, "God bless America, and EVERYONE else!" -- 'Head of State' (2003)
Well, actually...? This seems to be a pretty darned good suggestion. However, the ten minute limit...? Seems a little short. Some of the Supercharger locations are in rather remote sections of parking lots. Not everyone in the world walks as quickly as well... I do. Ten minutes would be enough for me to get there from about a mile away without breaking a sweat. Some people can't cover 100 yards in ten minutes.
And also...? I don't trust text messaging at all. Often my attempts to reply to them don't go through at all, especially with attachments. Other times, I simply don't receive text messages at all, then four days later I receive a flurry of them from people who sent them to me four days ago. Just because an alert was sent, doesn't mean it was received.
I believe that a more extensive grace period should be implemented to your plan, even at the expense of some people waiting for a charge. Hopefully a more attentive driver in another space would move their car during that waiting period. Ultimately for me, if someone is at a Supercharger and plugged in for more than two hours, something is wrong. There is a possibility that someone may have stayed in their car and fallen asleep, and therefore are unaware of the congestion around them. The alerts via app, text, or phone call should begin after three hours. And if there is billing to be involved, that should start at four hours. Should the clock tick over to a sixth hour, it's time to call a tow truck.
Because for some people, typically referred to in my posts as [FARGIN' BASTIDGE ICEHOLES], the worst four-letter word they ever heard was 'share'. The last thing on their minds is being courteous to others. They have no empathy or respect for the needs of others. And their life motto is 'Nobody Said Life Was Fair'. So courtesy must be enforced by other, external entities to gain traction and acceptance.
And this is why I am absolutely certain you are NOT an [ICEHOLE]. Welcome to the human race. Glad to have you join us!
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Red Sage, please tone down your language. Changing the letters doesn't help, especially since you use all CAPS to swear. This is a family friendly forum and let's please keep it that way.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Actually in the sites I am talking about, they haven't added any stalls. They did add two stations in December, but only one (Pacific Place) is near the peak station (Hopewell), and guess what, it is not free (parking has to be paid for: 25HKD/hr or about $3.2USD/hr)
Large Lunch Queues At Tesla's Most Utilized Supercharger Station, Hong Kong
Best Tesla Model S-friendly Car Park Map | Charged Hong Kong
Doing some googling, it seems there is a site in the US that does this (first hour parking is free, but it is in a paid parking structure):
Superchargers in Normal, IL
So interestingly, my idea is not a new one and is already in use!
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