Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[nwdiver]

So much for Tesla's Supercharger advantage over the Bolt EV and other non-Tesla 200+ mile BEVs.

Tesla is building their own network... GM isn't. Teslas advantage is their network exists.

You can either have a robust nation-wide network funded by vehicle sales like Tesla or a patchy local network funded by use.

 

[ohmman]

People who ordered the Model 3 have an argument that they were defrauded into ordering the Model 3 by saying Supercharging is standard and then being charged for it.

Such an argument has no substance. A refundable deposit is not a charge. I also don't believe there was ever an implication Supercharging would be free on all cars, otherwise I wouldn't have had to repeatedly merge new threads into this one.

 

[Vitold]

that would probably lead to complaining.... people who charge up from 5% would get more kWh as others that start from 50%...

That's the point - if you're at 80% - you should be done charging unless you really need it. Of course there would be some commercial locations, such as malls, that would like you to spend more time and perhaps subsidize SC use.

In addition, time-of-the-day pricing would be an incentive to schedule charging off peak hours and smooth-out utilization.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Elon Musk stated in his keynote for the Model 3 reveal:
"All Model 3s will come with Supercharging as Standard."

This is clear - Standard means no charge. He didn't say Supercharging Capable.

If he goes back on his word, I may end up canceling both of my Model 3 orders.

He said that "the reason Supercharging is important is that it gives you freedom to travel."
He also said he is going to double the Superchargers by the end of next year.

People who ordered the Model 3 have an argument that they were defrauded into ordering the Model 3 by saying Supercharging is standard and then being charged for it.

Supercharging is important. I would not buy a Tesla unless it came with Supercharging as standard.

We'll see if they go back on what they promised.

If you feel defrauded, cancel your order. Plenty of people will be filling up your spot. When Elon said it was standard, he was only referring to the hardware. Same as when satellite radio is "standard" in a car. That only refers to the hardware, while there is still a subscription fee to use the service.

 

[LCTRC]

If you feel defrauded, cancel your order. Plenty of people will be filling up your spot. When Elon said it was standard, he was only referring to the hardware. Same as when satellite radio is "standard" in a car. That only refers to the hardware, while there is still a subscription fee to use the service.

No. He knows the difference. He clearly mentioned that the Autopilot Hardware is standard -meaning it will have the hardware but you will have to pay for the Autopilot options. But when he says Supercharging is Standard, he knows what he is saying. He would have said "it will have Supercharging capabilities" or "Supercharging hardware" if that is what he meant.

 

[ucmndd]

Then they would have to go back to every SuperCharger and put in intelligent timers that can communicate with their NEW capacity database and shut off your power at your cut-off time.

Of course they wouldn't. They already know all of that information.

 

[LCTRC]

Such an argument has no substance. A refundable deposit is not a charge. I also don't believe there was ever an implication Supercharging would be free on all cars, otherwise I wouldn't have had to repeatedly merge new threads into this one.

Listen to his Model 3 unveil speech again - it is on the Tesla website. He says Supercharging is Standard.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Of course they wouldn't. They already know all of that information.

So they wouldn't stop you from going over your limit?

 

[ohmman]

Listen to his Model 3 unveil speech again - it is on the Tesla website. He says Supercharging is Standard.

I'm not arguing that you interpreted it one way. I'm arguing that it's interpretable in the other way. Otherwise so many people wouldn't have been asking. If he said, "free for life" as he has with the S, I think this thread wouldn't exist in its current form.

 

[Jeff N]

Tesla is building their own network... GM isn't. Teslas advantage is their network exists.

But if you force potential customers of Tesla's less expensive cars to pre-pay ~$2,000 that they don't want to pre-pay and give them no pay as you go option then Tesla's network might as well not exist for them.

You can either have a robust nation-wide network funded by vehicle sales like Tesla or a patchy local network funded by use.

False binary choice. Tesla will continue to sell lots of high-end cars like S and X where pre-pay is built into the price of the car and less expensive models will have a pre-pay option that many (but not all or even a majority) will take advantage of. At 500,000+ cars a year that will create lots of money to fund new charging facilities even if many Model 3 customers choose to pay as they go.

 

[ucmndd]

So they wouldn't stop you from going over your limit?

I never suggested a limit. Rather a sliding scale, starting at free, with an increasing cost as usage rises. Sign up with a credit card, even if you only ever use the "free" tier. Should you venture into the range of usage that requires payment, you get billed once a month for your usage.

Or really, whatever. The details aren't particularly important beyond the acknowledgement that they most certainly could implement some sort of pay per use system with the existing installed technology.

 

[MP3Mike]

Listen to his Model 3 unveil speech again - it is on the Tesla website. He says Supercharging is Standard.

And you should look on the screen behind him where it says "Supercharging Capable" while he is saying that. So he messed up his speech a little bit.

 

[mspohr]

forget 50mpg, If they are going to charge vs it needs to be more on the scale of 100mpg or better.

The only reason to charge is to keep it from being abused. The charge can be moderate/low and still be a deterrent.

I think it is self-abuse to drive to a Supercharger and wait to charge when I could just plug in at home. My "abuse" of a Supercharger would be equivalent to working at a minimum wage (or less) job.

 

[nwdiver]

False binary choice. Tesla will continue to sell lots of high-end cars like S and X where pre-pay is built into the price of the car and less expensive models will have a pre-pay option that many (but not all or even a majority) will take advantage of. At 500,000+ cars a year that will create lots of money to fund new charging facilities even if many Model 3 customers choose to pay as they go.

Tesla will need ~$500M/yr to expand the network to support the model 3. They don't sell enough Ss and Xs... where's that supposed to come from if not vehicle sales? $2k is <10% of the cost of a model 3... if you can't afford it you can't afford it. Money has to come from somewhere.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Hey, to make pay per use even more complicated - how about having Tesla adjust its rates hourly - just like the Power Company in Illinois does. https://hourlypricing.comed.com/
Then Tesla could be in the electricity sales business. LOL

 

[TexasEV]

What do y'all expect for $35,000? Not just a 200+ mile range Tesla, but free supercharging too?

 

[geoffreak]

See Elon Musk On Why Supercharging Won't Be Free For Model 3

The article quotes Musk from yesterday when he was answering a shareholder question, here it is:

“… we wanted to make it really straightforward and easy, that’s why the Superchargers are set up at -least today – for people on board the car to travel long distances for life. Obviously, that has fundamentally a cost… The obvious thing to do is decouple that from the cost of the Model 3. So it will still be very cheap, and far cheaper than gasoline, to drive long-distance with the Model 3, but it will not be free long distance for life unless you purchase that package. I wish we could [make it free], but in order to achieve the economics, it has to be something like that. What Tesla’s motivation is, to make electric transport as affordable as possible. That is what informs all of our actions. It’s not because we want to make things more expensive, it is because we can’t figure out how to make it less expensive. That’s all.”

Hopefully I'm not the only one, but this first sentence says to me that Tesla envisions Superchargers being almost as common as gas stations. They don't intend for them to be used only for long distance travel in the long run.

 

[jgs]

Tesla already has a payment authentication system to keep out cars that are not pre-paid. It seems to be reliable.

There is good reason to believe that the "system" is software entitlement on the car itself. See Pack Swap on 70D to 90kWh HP?

 

[nwdiver]

No. He knows the difference. He clearly mentioned that the Autopilot Hardware is standard -meaning it will have the hardware but you will have to pay for the Autopilot options. But when he says Supercharging is Standard, he knows what he is saying. He would have said "it will have Supercharging capabilities" or "Supercharging hardware" if that is what he meant.

Yes... because people never leave off a word they meant or should have said to convey the meaning they intended.

 

[jgs]

that would probably lead to complaining....

To judge by TMC posts, there is no conceivable thing that would not lead to complaining, up to and including having a fresh, fully-charged battery delivered and installed by magical unicorns.

I think it is self-abuse to drive to a Supercharger and wait to charge when I could just plug in at home. My "abuse" of a Supercharger would be equivalent to working at a minimum wage (or less) job.

I like to use this as an illustration of the principle: Blake Fall-Conroy. They could install one at every SC site, that people could use to kill time while contemplating the futility of their behavior.