The Drive article is here. Another funny quote made me update the shirt with The Drive quote on the back. 
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Model 3 Track Day: Laguna Seca
- Thread starter mattcrowley
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- Model 3
I put the regen on 'Low', instead of 'Standard' because I wanted to initially lower the possibility of power unit heating issues. My intent was to try 'Standard' later in the day, if 'Low' regen worked. However, I went in thinking this whole thing wasn't going to get past two laps anyway. So, I was initially happily surprised that I didn't experience thermal limiting on the power unit under 'Low' regen setting. When the brakes wore out, then the day was over, so I didn't have another opportunity to test 'Standard'. Obviously more testing is needed and we don't know if higher ambient temperature and/or 'Standard' regen will ultimately power limit the system. Finding out will be fun!
Higher ambient temperature will be interesting, especially since the temperature differential in an EV isn't as high, as on an ICE. So a higher ambient temperature should have an increased impact.
Will be interesting to see how the performance version will be on a track, let's hope Tesla will increase the cooling to match the increased power. Could be a really good track car with 500hp.
I have seen brake pads fall out of the caliper when worn a mm or 2 more than yours once they are worn thinner than the space between the caliper and the disc. At that point the caliper piston extends past the end of its bore in the caliper and the brake fluid was lost! Usual cure is a lining warning contact on the pad(s) but there are others. Computer could detect and warn that performance driving might not be suitable without frequent wear checks. In high mileage cars sticky calipers can be encountered that may wear only one brake pad so that will need to be considered too. In my experience with German cars, the seals that allow dual braking may have failed too and cause insufficient pedal travel to stop quickly. All scenarios including worn master cylinder seals should be tested, especially in such a high performance car. Is this problem going to be encountered with S and X cars?
Brake reservoirs empty out as brake pad wear causes caliper pistons to extend from their bore and a volume equal that of the extended piston is required to match that of the extended pistons. A fluid level sensor has been used to indicate pad wear, but the usual response to low fluid level is to top it up, negating the safety function. Single pad wear is usually insufficient to cause a level alarm.
My second hand experience with antique Porsche 911 autocross cars is that drilled rotors cause cooler brakes, longer pad life, better brake feel, less dust accumulation. High performance German cars have had drilled rotors for circa 2 decades, so I would not expect much problem with them despite the significantly higher expense to manufacture.There are safety regulations that make it more and more difficult to allow the operator to fully disable these systems. So it's unlikely as time goes on that stability control will be able to be disabled. It's more likely that we'll start to see control profiles that are more suited to aggressive driving and making lap times faster.
So far, it doesn't seem that the Model 3 needs a larger radiator since the PMAC motor by its very nature runs significantly cooler than an AC induction motor. Larger rotors might require larger wheels depending on how tight things are with the 19" option, but I agree a more aggressive brake kit would be good. As well as a more adjustable regen.
I hope @arnis never stops digging. After all, he's got a race track on his continent, everybody! That makes him a pro for sure.
As for the person claiming to have done many tens of thousands of miles on their stock pads, then tracked it four times. The only way I believe that is if they were glazed and offering terrible stopping power but lots of heat. But that's still beside the point, since different pads are chosen for different applications and different situations. Expecting a stock pad to work on a race track, regardless of how many may have, is an idiotic idea. You can take any car you want to any track you like with whatever pads you choose. Nobody at the track is going to stop you. But the walls might. Personally, I've spent the money for a StopTech upgrade with stainless lines, Motul fluids, and Hawk street performance pads. I would not expect those pads to last more than a day at the track and still be useful to my daily driving. And since they're a consumable part, I wouldn't be butthurt about it either. It's a cost of tracking a car in my opinion.
Anyway, @arnis, you keep doing you! You're doing a great job trolling, and some day you'll make it to the big leagues. I have faith in you.
Until/ unless cars switch to 4 motors and use the motor speed for wheel speed, there will be a hub mounted speed sensor which can be unplugged to disable (most forms of) traction control.
The 3 does appear to have a larger radiator and condenser than the S/X. It looks to be full frunk width and tilted for maximum available area. The cooling fan also feeds the radiator whereas S/X were only natural flow (per cooling system image showing fans for condensers only).
How different is racing from towing a trailer on a long curvy downgrade regarding brake load?
Battery charging braking will stop if down hill energy exceeds battery capacity, much more load on brakes!
Posted a video of the brake pads/rotors/pistons, here.
Model 3 is getting towed to the Tesla service center tomorrow. I let Tesla know about the track day and shared the details, so they know as much as possible before I drop it off.
Model 3 is getting towed to the Tesla service center tomorrow. I let Tesla know about the track day and shared the details, so they know as much as possible before I drop it off.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I know nothing about brake ventilation. How does the ventilation compare to an ICE vehicle?
Changing pad compound isn't going to change the amount of heat generated.
Let us know how much Tesla charges to replace the pads (and probably rotors too?).
sreams
Member
Sure. But a different compound may handle heat a lot better. One of the cars I take to Laguna Seca (a '72 BMW 2002) went through a brand new set of organic pads in one day. Semi-metallic pads completely addressed the issue.
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
I agree with sreams, and have had a similar experience with a pad compound (at Buttonwillow, not LS) going from near new to gone in one day. Although Laguna is pretty hard on brakes, and the 3 is a fairly heavy car, the fact that this happened in one SESSION clearly shows that in the "pad compound compromise decision" Tesla clearly emphasized initial cold bite, quiet, and low dust over any performance metric. This makes sense when you consider how 99% of buyers will use the car, and how much regen braking lowers pad wear. However, this is also VERY informational for anyone who wants to try tracking the car that switching from the stock pads is a MUST, probably even if it's your first track day.
Thanks for being the guinea pig mattcrowley!
Thanks for being the guinea pig mattcrowley!
sreams
Member
From your video... I see a potential issue with those Unplugged Performance springs. With the car jacked up like it is, and the spring extended as much as it would ever be, all of the tighter coils are completely collapsed. That would suggest that the softer rate of the spring does nothing at all, and that it is always acting on the increased rate coils.
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sreams
Member
Ah.... Maybe so. Thay would suggest, however, that the softer coils *might* work on decompression, but do nothing on compression.
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You are very welcome!I agree with sreams, and have had a similar experience with a pad compound (at Buttonwillow, not LS) going from near new to gone in one day. Although Laguna is pretty hard on brakes, and the 3 is a fairly heavy car, the fact that this happened in one SESSION clearly shows that in the "pad compound compromise decision" Tesla clearly emphasized initial cold bite, quiet, and low dust over any performance metric. This makes sense when you consider how 99% of buyers will use the car, and how much regen braking lowers pad wear. However, this is also VERY informational for anyone who wants to try tracking the car that switching from the stock pads is a MUST, probably even if it's your first track day.
Thanks for being the guinea pig mattcrowley!
Now...let's optimize the brake solution and find the next limiting factor on this car. This is a fun process to fine tune this car. This car reminds me of my '64 VW bug I bought in high school...and how I could change it, lower it, replace parts, personalize it,...let's have fun with this thing.
This one is tough, since I had the jack still holding some pressure (under the jack mount location), and the wheel/tire (under the car for added safety) holding some pressure of the car...while the jack stand was under the lower suspension arm. So...don't read too much into this compression, since the spring wasn't holding the entire load of the car.
sreams
Member
Wouldn't that suggest that if the spring was holding the entire load of the car, that it would be even more compressed? Those tighter coils allow for no more compression.
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