The 90 watts goes to drive a speaker. If you had an ideal load it would convert that into acoustic energy or pressure. Sadly speakers are 2% efficient so that was a bad example, but it was to illustrate a pointWhere does the 90W go? It converts to heat when the sound waves hit things. Conservation of energy. Energy cannot really be "consumed", just converted to other forms. Unless you're creating mass somehow
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Model 3 vampire drain log
- Thread starter AMIYY4YOU
- Start date
Valid point. So then does my data indicate that all 45w is dissipated as heat?
Actually yeah that makes sense.. I've felt 50w of heat - 10v into a 2 ohm load. While it is very hot locally, I have to remind myself that that heat averaged over the total volume of the car is very miniscule
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JeffK
Well-Known Member
A little known fact is that Teslas dream.
While you're not driving them they are secretly contemplating the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.
While you're not driving them they are secretly contemplating the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.
Lol in the grand scheme of things the drain is pretty minimal. Your ICE car battery is likely to drain at the same rate knuckle head. 4 mi/day would give you about 70 days and you wouldn't let your car Isle for 2 months.
Also the way youre defending the Nissan leaf makes it seem like you have one and were offended by my comment. Please try to make an argument as to how the model 3 isn't more technologically advanced than the Nissan leaf.
diamond.g
Active Member
I have noticed electric cars with push button start don’t actually appear to keep the 12v battery up. So it is possible to eventually run the 12v down it just takes longer. That also why you don’t usually see range loss.
Tesla’s generally aren’t every really off
Tesla’s generally aren’t every really off
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Is your phone ever really off? It is possible to make "advanced" devices with low standby power.
It's not minimal. It's a 10% increase in energy consumption if you drive 15k miles a year.
diamond.g
Active Member
How much should they shut down? Then you run into issues like when to upload logs and when to download firmware updates. Or how long it takes to wake up to respond to online queries (everything I have read shows me that OnStar sucks bad in this regard). Maybe Tesla should use deep cycle batteries and let the voltage drop lower than they do.
It is all about trade offs.
The vampire drain on the model 3 is crazy variable. I measured as little drain as 1 mile during an 8 hour work day When parked in a garage in 80 degree weather. However, when parked outside in 90 to 95 degrees and sunny, I've noted drain as much as two miles an hour. I also wonder whether this varies based on the color of your car. Mine is black, so I assume that a white one may drain less. While this isn't really a big deal during daily driving, it will be a big deal during road trips when your car is just parked there for extended. Coming from a Blu Model S, I experienced similar vampire draining in that car, and it doesn't seem to be any different in the model 3. Will be interesting to see what the drain is in the winter time.
I agree with you!
It is starting to seem like we'd benefit greatly from maybe three choices?
1. Full on, everything works instantly. You drive it all the time, and you want things to respond without delay. Max drain, but it doesn't matter.
2. Goldilox. Saves vampire drain when it can, and some operations may be delayed for a second or two. Medium drain, best of all worlds.
3. Storage. Turns off everything that's optional. It may take several seconds to wake the car up and have it respond. Perfect for travel and long-term storage. Minimal drain, for those don't drive so much, and want to save the world a bit more.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Thanks, Sage.
It is so rare that I feel like I've nailed it. But I'll take it!
It does strike me as odd that we have no choice. If we ignore the drain, then of course everybody wants everything instantly at the ready all the time. But I think many of us are beyond the "convenience at any cost" concept. It would be pretty simple to offer a choice. We just have to figure out how to get an audience with somebody who could make this happen.
viva la choice.
I'm not sold about the "dangers" of vampire drain. I've hooked up my Kill-a-watt to many of the device that are supposed to suck power when not being used; various chargers mostly, laptop, cell phone, etc. They get as close to 0 as possible when not being used. Almost not even measurable except over a timeframe of weeks.
I'm sure what burns power in my house is stuff like the TiVo that probably turns on to record a program I've long since forgotten about, then stays on standby for another hour after, then goes to sleep, then turns on 30mins later.. wash,rinse,repeat
My house uses about 450w at "idle" and I can attribute about 120w of that to my computer equipment- router, switch, NAS, wireless access points, and so on. I've got 2x 6w LED bulbs at the front of the house, a water fountain for the cats, and... that's pretty much it!
I''ve got a "missing" ~250-300w I've never been able to account for. Even went around flipping breakers off at a time a couple years back, no luck! That said, I still think we do far better than most folks, and I'm sure it's a legitimate consumer, just something I haven't been able to find.
I'm sure what burns power in my house is stuff like the TiVo that probably turns on to record a program I've long since forgotten about, then stays on standby for another hour after, then goes to sleep, then turns on 30mins later.. wash,rinse,repeat
My house uses about 450w at "idle" and I can attribute about 120w of that to my computer equipment- router, switch, NAS, wireless access points, and so on. I've got 2x 6w LED bulbs at the front of the house, a water fountain for the cats, and... that's pretty much it!
I''ve got a "missing" ~250-300w I've never been able to account for. Even went around flipping breakers off at a time a couple years back, no luck! That said, I still think we do far better than most folks, and I'm sure it's a legitimate consumer, just something I haven't been able to find.
TT97
Active Member
I'm not sold about the "dangers" of vampire drain. I've hooked up my Kill-a-watt to many of the device that are supposed to suck power when not being used; various chargers mostly, laptop, cell phone, etc. They get as close to 0 as possible when not being used. Almost not even measurable except over a timeframe of weeks.
I'm sure what burns power in my house is stuff like the TiVo that probably turns on to record a program I've long since forgotten about, then stays on standby for another hour after, then goes to sleep, then turns on 30mins later.. wash,rinse,repeat
My house uses about 450w at "idle" and I can attribute about 120w of that to my computer equipment- router, switch, NAS, wireless access points, and so on. I've got 2x 6w LED bulbs at the front of the house, a water fountain for the cats, and... that's pretty much it!
I''ve got a "missing" ~250-300w I've never been able to account for. Even went around flipping breakers off at a time a couple years back, no luck! That said, I still think we do far better than most folks, and I'm sure it's a legitimate consumer, just something I haven't been able to find.
I'm assuming you accounted for your refrigerator? Fridges use about 100-200 Watts per hour.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
No doubt about it, tracking down vampires takes some persistence.I'm not sold about the "dangers" of vampire drain. I've hooked up my Kill-a-watt to many of the device that are supposed to suck power when not being used; various chargers mostly, laptop, cell phone, etc. They get as close to 0 as possible when not being used. Almost not even measurable except over a timeframe of weeks.
I'm sure what burns power in my house is stuff like the TiVo that probably turns on to record a program I've long since forgotten about, then stays on standby for another hour after, then goes to sleep, then turns on 30mins later.. wash,rinse,repeat
My house uses about 450w at "idle" and I can attribute about 120w of that to my computer equipment- router, switch, NAS, wireless access points, and so on. I've got 2x 6w LED bulbs at the front of the house, a water fountain for the cats, and... that's pretty much it!
I''ve got a "missing" ~250-300w I've never been able to account for. Even went around flipping breakers off at a time a couple years back, no luck! That said, I still think we do far better than most folks, and I'm sure it's a legitimate consumer, just something I haven't been able to find.
I was able to get down to 10 watts in my old house. I went so far as to put the microwave on a switch but was never able to kill the idiot clock and lights on the range because if ran on 240V.
Yeah, because I can watch in realtime I can see the 'low' points. The fridge cycles are surprisingly long.
Warning... Watts is an instantaneous measurement. There is no time component. A fridge that uses 200 Watts for an hour, also uses 200 Watts for a minute. And 200 Watts for a second. 200 Watts being used for one hour equates to 200 Watt-hours consumed. If running for two hours, that would be 400 Watt-hours consumed. So... the fridge uses 200 Watts when running, regardless of how long it runs. If we then add up the number of hours that it runs, we can determine how many Watt-hours it consumes (because that's what we pay for in our utility bills).
I know it sounds like I'm just being annoying, but units do matter. A Model S 100D does not hold 100 kW of electricity. It holds 100 kWh. That battery could product 100 kW for one hour (And you'd be going really, really fast). :-O
If the devices in question are not consuming much power, then clearly there's no "danger." It is the things that DO use quite a bit of power when "off" that is a concern. Like a Tesla, for example.
And also the Tivo. Measure that sometime, and you'll see what vampire drain is. Anything that's "energy star" rated needs to consume less than 1W when in "standby." And that's tough to measure with a Killowatt meter, since it is effectively zero. But try an older subwoofer or amplifier or TV or printer that's in standby, and you'll find plenty to be sold on.
Again, the "danger" isn't from stuff that doesn't consume much! The danger comes from those devices that we think are "off" but are sitting there consuming energy 24-7.
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