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Model S HPC & J1772

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by smoothoperator, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. I have noticed that the Model S HPC is relatively inexpensive when compared to other EVSE's.

    Can it be converted to J1772? Does Tesla still do the HPC donation for referrals? These EVSE's may be good donation candidates to local businesses & cities.
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I'm very sure the Roadster HPCs can be converted to J1772 without issue because it is really a Clipper Creek. In fact I believe many public HPCs in California have been converted.

    I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the Model S HPC though. It's a Tesla design, and has probably only been tested on Tesla vehicles. I know that Clipper Creek has done extensive testing on a variety of OEM vehicles. The J1772 standard isn't very clear on timing etc. and you can get incompatibilities.
     
  3. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Consider also that the HPWC is capable of up to 80 A.
     
  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  6. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    #6 mitch672, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    The Tesla HPC for the Model S can be set to work from a 40A to a 100A breaker, when you add it to your Model S configuration, it costs $1200

    Here is the cut sheet on it, which is copied from the "charging page" on the Model S. keep in mind, to get any benefit from circuit ampacity greater than a 50A breaker, you would need the 2nd onboard charger (adds $1500 more). I think the Model S HPC will end up costing less than buying a 2nd Mobile Connector from them.

    http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/highpowerwallconnector_summarysheet.pdf
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    OK, compared to many of the (overpriced) J1772 EVSEs you can get, the HPC2 isn't too bad a price.
    To get 3x the ampacity requires much thicker wiring and sturdier components.
     
  8. Thanks for the information, this makes it clear that the old Clipper Creek 70A HPC is a better bet...I thought this EVSE would be capable of supplying at least 70amp but it looks like it will not work over 50amp with J1772 (if at all).
     
  9. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    It can supply 80A, if you connect it to a 100A breaker (%20 derated because of continuous load), that's 10Amps more than the old Clipper Creek CS-100

    It's designed with the Model S connector installed on it, not sure why you would want to change it out to a J-1772, which is limited to 75A max, and was never really designed for that high of a current (contacts where rated at 32Amps on J-1772 when it was designed). The Model S connector was designed for higher current...
     
  10. With the Roadster, Tesla had a program where they would give a person who referred a roadster sale an HPC. A lot of people who got these HPC's donated them to business owners and cities. For example, there is an HPC in Harris Ranch, CA (relatively equidistant between Northern & Southern California) that allows Roadster drivers the ability to get a full 70amp charge when making the journey on the I-5. This HPC was donated by a person who referred a roadster sale (to my knowledge). If Tesla were to continue this program, EVSE infrastructure could be built by donating these referred HPC's.

    A lot of cities will ask you (when donating an EVSE) what cars can charge with this EVSE? ...If your answer is only Tesla, chances are you will face some resistance. If the cable is a J1772 and you can name off half a dozen cars that can charge, it will be a lot easier to get the EVSE installed. Does it really matter if the connector is a Tesla or J1772 (maybe more people will use it which means it may not always be available), but its better than not having any EVSE at all, right?
     
  11. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    Yes, but I'm not sure Tesla is donating anything when a Model S is referred. There is a large amount of J-1772 already deployed in California, although its mostly going to be 30A EVSEs. I think Tesla is going to focus on deploying the Supercharger network for Model S owners, so they are not as concerned with J-1772. The Model S is coming with the adapter, so it can use pretty much any charging spot, from a 120V outlet, to a 30A public J-1772 EVSE, to a 14-50 for the Mobile Connector, to a 70A public J-1772 EVSE, to the HPCW2 for the Model S (80A max if you feed it with the 100A breaker and have the dual chargers on your model S), and finally the Superchargers at 90KW.

    You can see why they are less concerned with public J-1772 70A these days...
     
  12. Yea this is not a Tesla corporate issue but rather a community issue. People like to donate EVSE's to businesses and the cities to help improve EVSE infrastructure. At $1200(even if Tesla is not doing the same deal as with the roadster) it is hard pass up on the versatile HPCW2 (much more capacity than other EVSE's in that price range), especially if you can add a J1772 cable and have it installed at a place where it will be used (or where EVSE infrastructure is lacking). I am more likely to need 80A charging on the road than at home (I have an HPC and never run it at 70a). Have you ever run into another EV charging when you have needed a charge and had to wait for a long time? My most recent experience I had to watch two movies back to back and still had to wait 2 hours...Biggest waste of time ever.
     
  13. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    Well, I don't drive a "real EV", I have a Plug in Prius, I did reserve a Model S on July 2nd though.

    You can build a 75A J-1772 EVSE for about $700, using the OpenEVSE project.
    Example 75A J-1772 EVSE: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/EVSE_Example75A

    The most expensive part is still the 75A ITT J-1772 cable assembly w/20' of cable, $328
    ITT Interconnect Solutions EVC-C-75A-600S-20, - Avnet Express

    The 2nd most expensive part is the 75A contactor, but I found a source of them for $120
    SuperBreakers.netSquare D

    next is the OpenEVSE PCB & advanced power supply combo, about $150 w/shipping
    http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/Ordering

    now you need a few misc parts (current transformer $10, relay $2, wiring, nuts & bolt, gland nuts for wiring), and a NEMA enclosure for it all, maybe about $100 total

    of course there is labor to put it together as well..

    Mitch
     

  14. If you can build these and sell them to cities you will make a ton of money...I know my limitations and I am sure I cannot build this and warrant that it will work day in and day out. Better yet, if you can find a way to customize the usage and integrate this with your local utility, I could see utility companies buying these and working with the cities to install them. For example if you are a Southern California Edison customer, and you use a SCE powered station, they charge you for the electricity and it appears on your home utility bill. Right now EVSE manufacturers charge based on time not usage. If the utility company could integrate public/private EVSE usage with their customers bill, that would be a big win for them.
     
  15. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    These are not UL listed or certified in any way, by the time you do that, your probably near the Clipper Creek pricing.

    The main point is, they can be put together for less... It depends on your motivation.

    In the UK, they have "Zero Carbon World", which donates charging stations to hotels, and where people spend time.
    We need an organization like that for the US.

    Home - Zero Carbon World
     
  16. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    In using J1772 you will have to slow down the charge rate from 80 amps to 75 as that is the max that the J1772 (itt only) cable has.been certified for.
     
  17. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The thing I hate about a lot of public J1772 infrastructure is that it is 30A, which is painful charging a Roadster unless you're staying overnight.

    The last time I used 30A staying overnight I slept in so the charger had 10 hours... and yet when I went down to the car it had just finished a Standard mode charge!

    This will be even worse with the Model S, with the bigger pack.
     
  18. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Yes. I think they almost wasted a lot of effort in the US by spending money on a lot of 30A chargers people don't use in movie theater parking lots, grocery store lots...etc. A few higher amp chargers in better locations would have been a bigger help.
     
  19. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    My 70 amp J1772 is now up an running at my office in San Luis Obispo, CA. Come into my office during business hours, mention TMC and you can charge for free.

    photo12.jpg
     
  20. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Awesome Lloyd. Very nice of you. Would be great to see more of those around. I've been trying to talk some of the local hotels into getting 70A J1772 chargers but they don't seem to see the business sense into installing them.
     

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