Model S - HPWC (High Power Wall Connector)

[jerry33]

But why 80 and not the full 100?

Brain slippage here. The breaker is 100 amps but only 80 amps can be used because it's a sustained load. Sorry about that.

 

[Klaus]

That's wrong. A 100A circuit needs a 100A breaker and can only be used for 80A sustained load.

If there is an 80A breaker it's an 80A circuit (even with a big enough wire for more) and can only be used for 64A sustained.

 

[InTheShadows]

That's wrong. A 100A circuit needs a 100A breaker and can only be used for 80A sustained load.

If there is an 80A breaker it's an 80A circuit (even with a big enough wire for more) and can only be used for 64A sustained.

Klaus is correct. It is a continuous use circuit and must be derated. The circuit and wire needs to be 100A. Please get it corrected ASAP. I really don't want to see another garage burn down and have it blamed on Tesla.

 

[rapoport3a]

My electrician installed the HPWC with a 100 amp breaker but then limited the operation as if there were a 90 amp breaker, i.e. 72 amps continuous instead of 80. He said that he'd had to replace a few HPWCs that operated at the full 100/80 but none that he'd set at 90/72.

Anyone with similar or relevant experience?

 

[invisik]

Klaus is correct. It is a continuous use circuit and must be derated. The circuit and wire needs to be 100A. Please get it corrected ASAP. I really don't want to see another garage burn down and have it blamed on Tesla.

And please manually set your charging rate to 60 amps on the car until you can get the breaker replaced.

-m

 

[pgiralt]

My electrician installed the HPWC with a 100 amp breaker but then limited the operation as if there were a 90 amp breaker, i.e. 72 amps continuous instead of 80. He said that he'd had to replace a few HPWCs that operated at the full 100/80 but none that he'd set at 90/72.

Anyone with similar or relevant experience?

All I can think of are the early fuse problems on the HPWC's, but all of those should have gotten the fuses replaced and this should be a non-issue. There should be no problem running the HPWC at 80A if you have the correct wiring and breakers (100A breaker to run at 80A). I'm been using my HPWC with no problem at 80A except for some heat issues on the cord which Tesla replaced a few weeks ago.

 

[PhilBa]

But why 80 and not the full 100?

Because all I had was 100A total for my detached garage. I needed to have something for lights, outlets and garage door openers. I'm happy with getting 64A delivered to my car via the HPWC. It's still plenty fast. I've since had my home service upgraded but probably won't bump the garage up so I can get the full 80A - not worth the additional cost.

 

[Cottonwood]

My electrician installed the HPWC with a 100 amp breaker but then limited the operation as if there were a 90 amp breaker, i.e. 72 amps continuous instead of 80. He said that he'd had to replace a few HPWCs that operated at the full 100/80 but none that he'd set at 90/72.

Anyone with similar or relevant experience?

I agree. This sounds like old info when there were fuse problems.

I have an HPWC at both of my houses on 100 Amp breakers, running at 80 Amps continuos, with nary a problem...

 

[Najeeb]

My electrician installed the HPWC with a 100 amp breaker but then limited the operation as if there were a 90 amp breaker, i.e. 72 amps continuous instead of 80. He said that he'd had to replace a few HPWCs that operated at the full 100/80 but none that he'd set at 90/72.

Anyone with similar or relevant experience?

I've never experienced an issue running at 80/100. Once you're used to be able to top up and get back driving again at 80/100 I wouldn't want to compromise on that.

 

[tomp]

Does anyone know if the HPWC also has a 'taper effect' similar to the Superchargers? I'm planning a weekend trip where I'll need to stop at an 80A HPWC to top up to full (to go from ~185mi SOC to ~265mi) and am trying to determine how long it will take.
THanks!

 

[Lloyd]

Does anyone know if the HPWC also has a 'taper effect' similar to the Superchargers? I'm planning a weekend trip where I'll need to stop at an 80A HPWC to top up to full (to go from ~185mi SOC to ~265mi) and am trying to determine how long it will take.
THanks!

Yes there is some taper, but it is slightly more towards the end of the charge cycle. Expect the last ~15% to take 30-40 minutes

 

[pgiralt]

Does anyone know if the HPWC also has a 'taper effect' similar to the Superchargers? I'm planning a weekend trip where I'll need to stop at an 80A HPWC to top up to full (to go from ~185mi SOC to ~265mi) and am trying to determine how long it will take.
THanks!

No, there isn't really a taper. You will get 80A to almost the end. The only caveat is that when you get to the end of a range charge, the car will try to balance the pack so once you get to 0 minutes left, it will sit there for a while saying "calculating time" or something like that and at that point it can start tapering down below 80A, but you should get 80A right up to the end before that happens. The pack rebalance can take a while, but you don't have to wait for it to go.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes there is some taper, but it is slightly more towards the end of the charge cycle. Expect the last ~15% to take 30-40 minutes

I don't think it's that bad (but then again I don't range charge often on my HPWC). I don't think the last 15 will take more than about 20 minutes or so.

 

[Lloyd]

Well you are charging at 19.8 Kw/hr and the last 15% is 12 KW. At full rate it would be ~35 min. and it does taper at the end. I don't think that 20 minutes is possible @ 80 amps.

 

[FlasherZ]

Ask and you shall receive.

Here's the taper curve. At the left side of the graph my SOC is 95% / 253.0 miles range right at 11:00. The taper starts at 98% SOC, 258.0 miles range, at 11:05. The car reports full range and 100% SOC / 265.1 miles at 11:16, when power is listed at 33A. The rest of the taper is all pack balancing, for a good 30+ minutes and is still going here at 11:50 (not shown because it didn't really show much more than a continued gradual downslope on the current).

I believe my range is accurate because I took a trip the other day that went from pack full down to 7 miles and recharged all the way again.

Based on this, I conclude that you may want to stop just at the point where the taper begins if you're looking to maximize your time on the road and you have the range to get where you're going. The difference between the taper start and taper end is only 7 miles range on my car.

Here's the graph:

 

[invisik]

Ask and you shall receive.

Here's the taper curve. At the left side of the graph my SOC is 95% / 253.0 miles range right at 11:00. The taper starts at 98% SOC, 258.0 miles range, at 11:05. The car reports full range and 100% SOC / 265.1 miles at 11:16, when power is listed at 33A. The rest of the taper is all pack balancing, for a good 30+ minutes and is still going here at 11:50 (not shown because it didn't really show much more than a continued gradual downslope on the current).

I believe my range is accurate because I took a trip the other day that went from pack full down to 7 miles and recharged all the way again.

Based on this, I conclude that you may want to stop just at the point where the taper begins if you're looking to maximize your time on the road and you have the range to get where you're going. The difference between the taper start and taper end is only 7 miles range on my car.

Outstanding as always, FlasherZ... Thanks for this info.

-m

 

[pgiralt]

Thanks FlasherZ. Great graphs. So the last 7 miles took about 11 minutes which means it only adds about 4-5 minutes at the very end of the charge as I expected.

BTW - how did you generate these graphs? Did you export data from VisibleTesla somehow to generate?

 

[FlasherZ]

Thanks FlasherZ. Great graphs. So the last 7 miles took about 11 minutes which means it only adds about 4-5 minutes at the very end of the charge as I expected.

BTW - how did you generate these graphs? Did you export data from VisibleTesla somehow to generate?

I use the node.js-based TeslaMS suite w/ a MongoDB back end. Two elements - the streaming daemon collects information from the car and pushes it into the MongoDB; then the visualization daemon runs a web server to which you can connect and see the energy consumption, the trip path / map, and the summary of energy usage over time.

TeslaMS tools for telemetry data visualization

hjespers/teslams · GitHub

 

[pgiralt]

I use the node.js-based TeslaMS suite w/ a MongoDB back end. Two elements - the streaming daemon collects information from the car and pushes it into the MongoDB; then the visualization daemon runs a web server to which you can connect and see the energy consumption, the trip path / map, and the summary of energy usage over time.

TeslaMS tools for telemetry data visualization

hjespers/teslams · GitHub

Awesome. Will have to play with this when I get some time.

 

[Cottonwood]

Does anyone know if the HPWC also has a 'taper effect' similar to the Superchargers? I'm planning a weekend trip where I'll need to stop at an 80A HPWC to top up to full (to go from ~185mi SOC to ~265mi) and am trying to determine how long it will take.
THanks!

I have found that my 85 starts to taper down from a full 20 kW, HPWC charge at about 90% SOC and follows roughly the same taper curve as on a Supercharger. Plan about 45-60 minutes for that last 10%.

 

[tomp]

That's great data, thanks!!

Ask and you shall receive.

Here's the taper curve. At the left side of the graph my SOC is 95% / 253.0 miles range right at 11:00. The taper starts at 98% SOC, 258.0 miles range, at 11:05. The car reports full range and 100% SOC / 265.1 miles at 11:16, when power is listed at 33A. The rest of the taper is all pack balancing, for a good 30+ minutes and is still going here at 11:50 (not shown because it didn't really show much more than a continued gradual downslope on the current).

I believe my range is accurate because I took a trip the other day that went from pack full down to 7 miles and recharged all the way again.

Based on this, I conclude that you may want to stop just at the point where the taper begins if you're looking to maximize your time on the road and you have the range to get where you're going. The difference between the taper start and taper end is only 7 miles range on my car.

- - - Updated - - -

So from this data, can I assume that I will be obtaining ~59mi per hour up to 258miles range? (on a HPWC at 80A)

Ask and you shall receive.

Here's the taper curve. At the left side of the graph my SOC is 95% / 253.0 miles range right at 11:00. The taper starts at 98% SOC, 258.0 miles range, at 11:05. The car reports full range and 100% SOC / 265.1 miles at 11:16, when power is listed at 33A. The rest of the taper is all pack balancing, for a good 30+ minutes and is still going here at 11:50 (not shown because it didn't really show much more than a continued gradual downslope on the current).

I believe my range is accurate because I took a trip the other day that went from pack full down to 7 miles and recharged all the way again.

Based on this, I conclude that you may want to stop just at the point where the taper begins if you're looking to maximize your time on the road and you have the range to get where you're going. The difference between the taper start and taper end is only 7 miles range on my car.

Here's the graph: