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Model S Refresh Airbag Horn Being Enabled
- Thread starter glide
- Start date
I doubt this will be on the existing models. Probably part of the refresh S with the new tail and headlights
Yup. It is a safety issue.
Hopefully they can work some software magic to make it happen, but if not, a retrofit is a must. It's not like they delivered that many MS/MX to date.
If they don't do it on their own maybe NHTSA will require it at some point.
emailforbrett
Member
I field a complaint with the NHTSA about the lack of center horn button or activation. Maybe if enough of us file such complaints, they will compel Tesla to retrofit existing S’s with an airbag horn. My car is already having a new airbag installed in a few days for the recall. What a waste it won’t have the horn switch.
www.nhtsa.gov
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
Many other cars have shipped with horns not on the center pad over the years and not once has it been considered a safety issue.
emailforbrett
Member
Those cars had prominent multiple horn buttons on the steering wheel. Not a tiny 2cm horn button randomly located on one side. The whole placing your hand over the right side buttons thing doesn’t work. I’ve had to do this a couple of time for errant Florida drivers, and the horn doesn’t fire, but the wipers turn on! Great when someone is running you off the road.
CaptUAL
Member
I live in California. Last time I used the horn was 1985. But if you live in New York, one probably used the horn 30 times today.
No. You’re forgetting the many cars that have had turn signal mounted horns as well. American, European, Japanese, they’ve all done it. And plenty of cars have had small hard to hit buttons on the face of the wheel.
I’m not saying the Tesla yoke horn is good. But this constant whining people are doing about it being a safety issue that the government is going to get involved with… ridiculous.
The yoke as a design, maybe.
The horn? Brush up on history.
emailforbrett
Member
I’m genuinely interested in seeing such a steering wheel with a tiny button for the horn. Could you post one? I’m not talking circa 1950’s cars. I mean please post a somewhat modern car with a tiny button for a horn. TIA!
Lol. I didn’t say tiny. Let’s try to stay factual and not fall back on click-bait language.
Look at 80’s ford airbag steering wheels. When airbags came out lots of steering wheels had small horn buttons on a steering wheel spoke. Lots of complaints that they were way harder to hit than just punching the center of the steering wheel. Lots of other manufacturers did the exact same thing. Porsche did it well into the 90’s. I had one.
Point being… people saying it’s a liability issue or the government will get involved… if it didn’t happen with turn signal activated horns, never mind buttons on the spoke… i don’t see it happening with the small yoke horn button.
Go read the NHTSA regulations. They even have a interpretation response that clarifies that they don’t even require a vehicle have a horn. They do have a requirement that if the car has a horn that it have markings, and even then only in specific situations.
It’s easy to project unhappiness with the way a car works and express it as “well it’s a safety/liability issue so they will have to change it,” but it helps to actually read the regulations.
Look at 80’s ford airbag steering wheels. When airbags came out lots of steering wheels had small horn buttons on a steering wheel spoke. Lots of complaints that they were way harder to hit than just punching the center of the steering wheel. Lots of other manufacturers did the exact same thing. Porsche did it well into the 90’s. I had one.
Point being… people saying it’s a liability issue or the government will get involved… if it didn’t happen with turn signal activated horns, never mind buttons on the spoke… i don’t see it happening with the small yoke horn button.
Go read the NHTSA regulations. They even have a interpretation response that clarifies that they don’t even require a vehicle have a horn. They do have a requirement that if the car has a horn that it have markings, and even then only in specific situations.
It’s easy to project unhappiness with the way a car works and express it as “well it’s a safety/liability issue so they will have to change it,” but it helps to actually read the regulations.
Just because this monstrosity technically complies with regulations does not make it safe.
The horn on the yoke *is* a safety issue. “Because Ford did it”, does not make it any more or less factual.
emailforbrett
Member
Yeah, I didn’t think there was another steering wheel with such a tiny singular horn button.
Hopefully more people complain and perhaps the NHTSA might step in, or perhaps Tesla will do the right thing and retrofit the refresh S’s on the road. It is a safety issue in its current form.
Hopefully more people complain and perhaps the NHTSA might step in, or perhaps Tesla will do the right thing and retrofit the refresh S’s on the road. It is a safety issue in its current form.
I get you feel it’s a safety issue. That’s your opinion. It’s a common opinion, even, held by many. Doesn’t make it a fact.
If over time, people die and/or get into accidents because of the horn, it becomes a fact.
But here’s the thing: The regulations do not even require a horn.
You can say the nhtsa is wrong and has the wrong regulations. Fact is that they do not even believe a horn is a required safety device.
Which eliminates the tiny horn button being a “liability” issue. Tesla has followed the regulations to the letter, no matter how bad a customer experience it is.
Before you get all bent out of shape on that too… do the research on what actually constitutes a liability. There are actual legal definitions. Read the regulations. They are, relative to other regulations, very simple and clear.
NHTSA and liability are not issues just because you want them to be, no matter how correct your opinion may be. NHTSA is like any government agency, lives and dies by its rules. The reason they can be so vocal about things like FSD and over the air updates is there are no documented regulations to constrain them.
What the yoke horn button is, without question, is something that many people dislike greatly.
If over time, people die and/or get into accidents because of the horn, it becomes a fact.
But here’s the thing: The regulations do not even require a horn.
You can say the nhtsa is wrong and has the wrong regulations. Fact is that they do not even believe a horn is a required safety device.
Which eliminates the tiny horn button being a “liability” issue. Tesla has followed the regulations to the letter, no matter how bad a customer experience it is.
Before you get all bent out of shape on that too… do the research on what actually constitutes a liability. There are actual legal definitions. Read the regulations. They are, relative to other regulations, very simple and clear.
NHTSA and liability are not issues just because you want them to be, no matter how correct your opinion may be. NHTSA is like any government agency, lives and dies by its rules. The reason they can be so vocal about things like FSD and over the air updates is there are no documented regulations to constrain them.
What the yoke horn button is, without question, is something that many people dislike greatly.
emailforbrett
Member
I can agree with you on most of those points.
Incidentally, horns are a requirement at the state level statutes, as are many vehicle regulations, supplementary to federal design regulations. Hence the reason why California can progressively regulate automobiles as compared to say, Idaho. What the NHTSA has weighed into WRT horns are such items as labeling of horn buttons and even the sound a horn can emit. So to say the NHTSA cannot regulate size or placement of horn buttons, when safety is of concern, is misguided, if they should be compelled to believe safety is at issue in this case.
Incidentally, horns are a requirement at the state level statutes, as are many vehicle regulations, supplementary to federal design regulations. Hence the reason why California can progressively regulate automobiles as compared to say, Idaho. What the NHTSA has weighed into WRT horns are such items as labeling of horn buttons and even the sound a horn can emit. So to say the NHTSA cannot regulate size or placement of horn buttons, when safety is of concern, is misguided, if they should be compelled to believe safety is at issue in this case.
Of course yes, they can change the regulations. But that doesn’t create liability for product that already has been sold and even if the regulations change, there will be a timeframe for when the regulation takes effect for newly produced vehicles.
For Tesla to be compelled by the government to make a change to existing cars already sold to the public will require a large documented track record of deaths and injuries.
A horn can help avoid an accident but a horn being responsible for death or injury? Under what conditions would the horn cause death or injury rather than speeding, impaired driving, bad decision making, major mechanical failure, etc… “This person was driving at the speed limit and following all traffic rules and died because of that darn yoke horn.”
The states do regulate many things but a single state deciding to regulate and then prosecute this particular issue, horn button placement of a car that sells in small numbers to rich people… minuscule odds.
No one should misconstrue my comments as defending the yoke horn button. I think it sucks.
But I also think it’s counter-productive to fall back on “safety” and “liability” as rationale for change. It’s the equivalent of saying mommy or daddy is gonna make them fix it for us.
Tesla will change it because customers think it sucks and they will put their money where there mouth is and not buy the cars. Those of us who have already bought the car… it’s possible tesla will do a retrofit but I’d put the odds at <10%.
For Tesla to be compelled by the government to make a change to existing cars already sold to the public will require a large documented track record of deaths and injuries.
A horn can help avoid an accident but a horn being responsible for death or injury? Under what conditions would the horn cause death or injury rather than speeding, impaired driving, bad decision making, major mechanical failure, etc… “This person was driving at the speed limit and following all traffic rules and died because of that darn yoke horn.”
The states do regulate many things but a single state deciding to regulate and then prosecute this particular issue, horn button placement of a car that sells in small numbers to rich people… minuscule odds.
No one should misconstrue my comments as defending the yoke horn button. I think it sucks.
But I also think it’s counter-productive to fall back on “safety” and “liability” as rationale for change. It’s the equivalent of saying mommy or daddy is gonna make them fix it for us.
Tesla will change it because customers think it sucks and they will put their money where there mouth is and not buy the cars. Those of us who have already bought the car… it’s possible tesla will do a retrofit but I’d put the odds at <10%.
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