Yep, that is what I had put in the original specs back at the end of 2009... (See the first post in this topic.)
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Yep, that is what I had put in the original specs back at the end of 2009... (See the first post in this topic.)
Wow. Assuming that's the full theoretical capacity, i.e. comparable to 56 kWh for the Roadster, then it's 61% bigger. That suggests the Model S uses 29% more energy per km (mile) than the Roadster (90 kWh = 300 miles versus 56 kWh = 240 miles). I guess that's the cost of a bigger vehicle.
That also suggests, per mile of range, the Model S will take 29% longer to charge, assuming the same power is available. The extra capacity will offset this to a degree; for example, if the larger pack is sufficient to get you all the way to your destination (it might be just enough for non-stop Ottawa to east-end Toronto), then you'll save lots of time. But if you have to do a lot of charging then it might be faster to take the Roadster.
Let's hope those 45 minute fast DC chargers get installed along major highways! That will make all the difference.
Tommy
Member
Another possibility is the 300 mile range for the Model S will be available in standard mode; so maybe the 29% more energy use is not the case. I recall Tesla stating the range specs they were going to use for the Model S were going to be conservative; stated mileage range being possible in real world driving.
with the 3-phase 400V32A = 22kW charging time is 4h, with 63A = 44kW only 2h. Model S must come with a build-in 3-phase charger anything else is nonsense, even for america. DC would help only a little bit, because it would be a little but easier to use a third-party charger. But I don't understand, why Tesla should give this away? put this on the list of options to get extra money
Mycroft
Life happens
It can be difficult to impossible getting 3-phase to a residence. If it's possible, it would be quite expensive.
if america has a problem with their old-fashioned grid - you have to upgrade it now. DC-Charging is no solution because they are powered by 3-phase 480V anyway. The same charger can handle 70A on single phase while on 3-phase it can handle 3x32A = 96A and even higher, because the riddle on the DC-side is less and the capacitors and coils can be smaller.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Not true; but it does depend on the power provider and what service they have in the street. We have it; it was installed before we bought the house (no idea why) and then the local power company replaced the cables with new ones when we installed our PV system.
Note: we live on an island and generally the homeowner owns the cables from the house to the street; replacing them would have cost $800-$1,500 normally. We were lucky enough to have an historical situation where the power company owned our cables and they replaced them at their cost.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The current Roadster charger will be able to charge the car fully in about 6 hours. And don't forget, you don't have to charge the car fully to use it. It just needs to be charged enough for your daily use, so most likely it'll take much less than that to charge it. I don't think 3 phase is really necessary for home charging.
As for 3 phase in residences in the US, I don't think it'll be that common for most EV buyers, even if it can be done for a somewhat reasonable price, since that just adds more expense on top of installing the EVSE and perhaps a second meter. From what I can find for PG&E, you might be able to get 200V 3 phase installed for a decent price as a residence (need to add two more transformers and new meter, probably around $5k), but I'm not sure if they can offer 400V service to residences (may be against code).
As for 3 phase in residences in the US, I don't think it'll be that common for most EV buyers, even if it can be done for a somewhat reasonable price, since that just adds more expense on top of installing the EVSE and perhaps a second meter. From what I can find for PG&E, you might be able to get 200V 3 phase installed for a decent price as a residence (need to add two more transformers and new meter, probably around $5k), but I'm not sure if they can offer 400V service to residences (may be against code).
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Except that you're not allowed to pull more than 16 Amps single phase in much of Europe. Would you want to be limited to only charging your Roadster with 16 Amps?
I'm really tired of every thread turning into a 3 phase discussion. How about we just respect that the Europeans know what they're talking about when they say they really need a 3 phase charger for the Model S. No, it's not really "needed" in the US, but the Model S is a global vehicle and Tesla really should at least have the option for European customers. Tesla knows that by now. It's up to them to follow through on it or not. There's no need to continue to debate it across all threads.
And we are going to see *a lot* of 22kW, 3P chargers popping up all over the UK in the next year. It would be really annoying if the Model S couldn't use these while Renault owners could.
NigelM
Recovering Member
In our case, yes (or maybe). Given that we have a large PV system and a bi-directional meter, we are exporting power back into the grid all day long and then drawing it back at night. Now, when we were installing the PV the local power company engineer who came to visit did not impress me with his knowledge level but he did feel that 3-phase was a good idea and he recommended renewing all the cables (at their expense) just to be sure. The implication was that this was good to have because of the power running both ways. Who was I to argue? :wink:
Norbert
TSLA will win
Charging 80% of a 90 kWh battery in 45 min takes 96 kW. That's already a bit more than SAE plans for DC level 2 (90 kW) as the maximum. And I'd guess it won't take more than a few years until even larger battery packs become available. 45 min is a fine time for a stop on a long trip. More than that means waiting. Probably it will take many years until anyone else than Tesla, or someone directly supporting Model S, would install chargers with 90 kW, even if SAE is an accepted standard. So if Tesla really wants to get to 45 min, they are probably on their own, whether or not they use SAE, and so SAE might be good only for PR. Or as an additional option, along with an option for CHAdeMO, and another one for Mennekes. On the other hand, Tesla seems to be de-emphasizing the need for fast-charging for the near future, where there are enough customers who are fine with home/work/hotel charging only.
So I'm really curious how the Model S will fast charge.
IIRC didn't someone a few months back say that the 45 minute claim referred to the 230 mile version?
But if it is the behemoth SAE plug, it makes the puzzle of where they've hidden the charge port even more mysterious.
But if it is the behemoth SAE plug, it makes the puzzle of where they've hidden the charge port even more mysterious.
Didn't we hear that it will be a Tesla proprietary interface/connector with adapter modules to standards?
With the retail stores trying to look a bit like an Apple store, I keep thinking, conceptually, of iPhone charge and interface adapter modules...
Mitrovic
Member
I can't find it, but I guess it must be somewhere: What is the expected weight of the model S?
Fisker Karma is about 2200 to 2400 Kg. Much too heavy!
Fisker Karma is about 2200 to 2400 Kg. Much too heavy!
Weight is 3825 lbs or 1735 Kg. Remember that the Center of Gravity will be much lower than the Fisker also due to the positon of the battery which will help also.
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