The sand buckets are very easily damaged and lead to more debris on the roadway, creating additional hazards, as highlighted by the motorcycle rider up-thread.
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Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)
- Thread starter mookhead
- Start date
Perhaps they were sued concerning yellow barrels?
We just had a brand new 2 freeway complex interchange system installed. All the yellow barrels are gone. Most gore points have guard rail covers now, and AFAIK, only a single telescoping one.
It's a problem with driving. A road cannot be made idiot proof, because by the time it's finished, they've already developed better idiots to defeat it.
In a similar accident near this one, the NTSB determined there was a lack of adequate highway markings. https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20170328.aspx I'd have to agree that more markers farther out would get the attention of the driver early on, instead of what they have now. They certainly have space for them.
I don't think the "smart cushion" thing is in the compressed state. There is absolutely no way a compressed smart cushion look like that in any of those photos. It looks like it got cut off and completely removed permanently (only the ground rails remains).Recap / medley of Impacted Smart Cushion photos seen on Street view:
2013 Nov:
View attachment 289057
2014 Sep:
2014 Dec:
2015 Mar:
View attachment 289061
2015 Sep:
2015 Nov:
View attachment 289056
2017 Jan:
View attachment 289058
2017 Feb:
2017 Apr:
2018 Mar 15 Dashcam (not from Streetview):
View attachment 289042
2018 Mar 23 DashCam (not from Streetview):
View attachment 289043
2018 Mar 24 DashCam (not from Streetview):
( Note, it was observed fully compressed on March 15, 23, & 24 )
I am not sure if we see it like that a lot due to frequent recompression impact events, or it is just left in the impacted / compressed state for extended periods of time.
I find it interesting that those orange cones and warning barricade seemed to have appeared between Mar 15 and Mar 23 (just before the big crash). Having the orange cones get knocked part way into the leftmost lane could have ended up making this situation worse. It seems to me that orange cones are not a good solution for more than just a temporary situation. They have a tendency to get knocked around and moved.
Use water in the bucket then. Water just flow away on road surface.
The barrier is comprised of an impact sled and telescoping sections, The compressed state is basically a cube with only the sled face and sides showing.
See other videos linked above (or the one below). The smart cushion attenuator collapses when hit and can be expanded and used again:
EVie'sDad
Member
Here is another news report giving more detail into the accident and it's aftermath.
Fire chief: Tesla crash shows electric car fires could strain department resources
Fire chief: Tesla crash shows electric car fires could strain department resources
It looks like the sled rails and the piecing front of the smart cushion is designed to capture/trap the vehicle so it doesn't bounce into the road.
Since the smart cushion was already crushed, the vehicle wasn't slowed down gracefully. The smart cushion grabbed some of the front end but the rest of the vehicle broke off and flipped over the barrier.
My guess would be that the outcome would have been very different if the smart cushion had been reset/repaired before this crash.
I suspect the X would have stopped in the rail / track, and the battery would never have been compromised and caught fire.
Someone told me "this seems designed only to work right if you have a big engine in the front of your vehicle." There may be some truth to that, but keep in mind that Tesla isn't the inventor of the "frunk". For instance there are a lot of mid/rear engined Porsches with a frunk up front and no engine to stop the intrusion of the smart barrier slicer.
Since the smart cushion was already crushed, the vehicle wasn't slowed down gracefully. The smart cushion grabbed some of the front end but the rest of the vehicle broke off and flipped over the barrier.
My guess would be that the outcome would have been very different if the smart cushion had been reset/repaired before this crash.
I suspect the X would have stopped in the rail / track, and the battery would never have been compromised and caught fire.
Someone told me "this seems designed only to work right if you have a big engine in the front of your vehicle." There may be some truth to that, but keep in mind that Tesla isn't the inventor of the "frunk". For instance there are a lot of mid/rear engined Porsches with a frunk up front and no engine to stop the intrusion of the smart barrier slicer.
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How so? Granted, Europe is a big place, so it's a fairly broad statement, but during my time in the UK (`30yrs) and other bits of Europe, I don't notice much difference in terms of crash protection, at least on major roads. If you get on the 60mph single-lane country roads that are all over the UK, that's a different story, but the stat's don't lie, unfortunately there's far more traffic related deaths in North America than any of the European countries. Of course, it's not all about crash protection, but I think in terms of crash prevention, Europe is generally ahead, starting at the driving test, drink-driving laws, road markings, consistent signage, vehicle standards etc. As someone that's been in the US for 8 years now, the lack of good signage, the lateness of signage and the awful signage in construction zones is remarkable, and frequently stress-inducing.
How so? Granted, Europe is a big place, so it's a fairly broad statement, but during my time in the UK (`30yrs) and other bits of Europe, I don't notice much difference in terms of crash protection, at least on major roads. If you get on the 60mph single-lane country roads that are all over the UK, that's a different story, but the stat's don't lie, unfortunately there's far more traffic related deaths in North America than any of the European countries. Of course, it's not all about crash protection, but I think in terms of crash prevention, Europe is generally ahead, starting at the driving test, drink-driving laws, road markings, consistent signage, vehicle standards etc. As someone that's been in the US for 8 years now, the lack of good signage, the lateness of signage and the awful signage in construction zones is remarkable, and frequently stress-inducing.
originalsalt
Member
It will interesting to see the results of the investigation. Condolescences to the driver's family. This accident had me really bummed because the Model X looks just like mine.
If anyone is able to do some video while on autopilot in that area... trying to change lanes or seeing if the car falters, it would be really helpful. This accident is really awful, I wonder if they will be able to recover the data.
I notice that many similar exits here have the white horizontal lines marking that it is not a lane. So many factors, but the possibility of autopilot being involved has me worried.
I notice that many similar exits here have the white horizontal lines marking that it is not a lane. So many factors, but the possibility of autopilot being involved has me worried.
Tam
Well-Known Member
It seems the fire department was concerned when they couldn't find the first responder loop to cut it to disable the 12V battery when the entire front of the car was completely gone starting from the dashboard which took the 12V battery and its first responder loop with it.
Driver identified in fiery Tesla crash
"The challenging situation was made worse by the significant damage caused by collision itself. Diaz said that Tesla vehicles are built to be very safe, with features to help first responders deal with lithium ion batteries that ignite, but in this case emergency crews had no access to the battery's disconnect wires because they were destroyed on impact. This is the first time the department has dealt with this kind of problem, Diaz said, and he commended his department's response to the dangerous situation."
My understanding is:
1) When an collision is detected, the 2 high voltage contactors (1 positive, 1 negative) would prevent the high voltage system from getting out beyond those contactors and keep the high voltage inside the battery pack.
2) Those high voltage contactors are powered by 12V battery so if you double cut the first responder loop, the high voltage system would be prevented from getting out of the battery pack. In this case, there's not 12V supply and the first responder loop has been severed during the collision, so they should consider this step of the procedure is done.
3) Supplemental Restraint System is powered by 12V battery so when you double cut the first responder loop, that would prevent those intact air bags from accidentally exploding while you are working at the scene.
Thus, when the fire department assessed that the 12V power was gone because the whole front of the car together with the 12V battery and its first responder loop, they should check off that step of double cutting the first responder loop instead of voicing concerns that they can't see it to cut it!
Looks like they don't understand why the first responder loop should be cut and for what purpose and if someone else or something else (the collision in this case) does that for them, they would just got caught off guard!
Driver identified in fiery Tesla crash
"The challenging situation was made worse by the significant damage caused by collision itself. Diaz said that Tesla vehicles are built to be very safe, with features to help first responders deal with lithium ion batteries that ignite, but in this case emergency crews had no access to the battery's disconnect wires because they were destroyed on impact. This is the first time the department has dealt with this kind of problem, Diaz said, and he commended his department's response to the dangerous situation."
My understanding is:
1) When an collision is detected, the 2 high voltage contactors (1 positive, 1 negative) would prevent the high voltage system from getting out beyond those contactors and keep the high voltage inside the battery pack.
2) Those high voltage contactors are powered by 12V battery so if you double cut the first responder loop, the high voltage system would be prevented from getting out of the battery pack. In this case, there's not 12V supply and the first responder loop has been severed during the collision, so they should consider this step of the procedure is done.
3) Supplemental Restraint System is powered by 12V battery so when you double cut the first responder loop, that would prevent those intact air bags from accidentally exploding while you are working at the scene.
Thus, when the fire department assessed that the 12V power was gone because the whole front of the car together with the 12V battery and its first responder loop, they should check off that step of double cutting the first responder loop instead of voicing concerns that they can't see it to cut it!
Looks like they don't understand why the first responder loop should be cut and for what purpose and if someone else or something else (the collision in this case) does that for them, they would just got caught off guard!
You can't just use water, as it can freeze. And putting anti-freeze in the water causes other issues. (It can be slippery and cause environmental problems.)
OK: Maybe in CA you could get away with just water most of the time.
You should be worried. The conversation here has focused mostly on Caltrans responsibility in this fatality, but that's not something you can do anything about in the short term. The real issue for Tesla owners in this crash is: did the car have any responsibility? You can't do anything to change the behaviour of other drivers, or Caltrans right now, but how you operate your car in regards to when you trust Autopilot and when you don't, is something you can change starting right now.
If the car was traveling in the right side HOV lane, there is no probable sequence of events where it should have hit the barrier. That is, unless AP was on, and with adverse light conditions, followed the wrong solid white line, i.e. the one on the left side of the gore point, instead of the line it should have followed on the right side of the gore point. In such a scenario, assuming the driver was not paying attention, AP would have guided the car straight into the barrier at cruising speed.
Yeah, no battery no contactors, but if metal is bent against the terminals, there is voltage. Fortunately, there is no circuit unless you touch both terminals. If the metal did touch both it would likely melt quickly.
There is a second cut line in the rear quarter panel (need a saw to cut it).
Things I'm not sure on:
I believe an airbag deployment also blows a pyro fuse.
I don't think the cut loop removes 12V from the vehicle.
This is what really frustrates me about the stock market.
The NTSB should investigate this crash because of the sheer amount of things that can be learned from it.
Was the barrier reset
Signage
Does the barrier work well for an electric car similar to the Model X?
The post crash scene of such a horrific electric vehicle crash.
Electric vehicles popularity is growing so this needs to be done.
Of course the stock markets only response is to assume it's bad news. I'd say the least worthy concern to investigators would be AP considering how many vehicles crash in that exact spot annually.
It's also frustrating that it took a Tesla crash for the NTSB to bother investigating that piece of roadway.
Are they going to look into those things? Their tweet looks more like they want to understand why the battery caught fire and how the fire department responded...
NTSB_Newsroom on Twitter
When I read that it sounds like they just plan to investigate what was going on with the wreckage after the crash, not what led up to or caused the crash.
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