Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[bonaire]

Hope Tesla figures out the cause of the fire and implements upgrades to elevate future fires. This was probably a good lesson for other EV makes. So sorry for the driver!

NCA batteries are a cause - in pictures of the crash, the battery pack was visible. NCA cell chemistry offers "venting with flame" if punctured (going back to the car-fires starting in 2013). Don't puncture/short the batteries. Or you will learn the meaning of "thermal runaway". Changing chemistry is not something I think they are considering due to the high energy density of NCA. Youtube is full of people puncturing Li-Ion batteries. There are some safer chemistries.

Lots more info: A review of international abuse testing standards and regulations for lithium ion batteries in electric and hybrid electric vehicles - ScienceDirect

 

[Hans (Amsterdam)]

I don't think the driver was burned at all. The fire didn't really get going until after passer-bys got him out of the X. He was unconscious and bleeding when they got to him.

This video clearly shows the driver was evacuated from the vehicle before the fire started.

 

[kevinof]

Yes. Having driven that road (in Ireland) and lots in the U.S. I can't understand why they dont. Also if the lane split is on the fast side of the motorway (as in this accident) they add plastic posts for a good few hundred meters so that there is no last minute lane changes at high speed.

Yes chevrons like these would really help. Europe does this much better than the states.
View attachment 289487

 

[McRat]

Even if it was having someone impact it once a month, that would seem too frequently to me. (IMHO)

Now that we know what to check for, let's see how long the new one stays reset.


I hope they consider better markings / warnings to stop people from cutting through that gore area.

If you park anywhere there is a gore point, and watch (from a safe location of course), you will see this everywhere in the state, and probably most states. Last week I watched a BMW cross that area at over 90 mph. Only stability control saved that idiot, or he was a professional race driver who was fired or wants to be fired. I watched the tires slide through the debris field.

The way to handle it is law enforcement, just like how you reduce drunk driving or speeding.

Due to the severe danger, make the penalty higher and add a specific subcode that forces you to pay for damages you've caused before being released from jail. Yes, a 2 point offense where you are arrested and vehicle impounded. Bail is $10,000 which will go toward repairs.

 

[AviP]

Europe definitely marks their highways nicely. But generally, safety standards are higher on US highways with regard to crash protection.

I wish the government steps up and comes up with a national standard for traffic lights, road signs, shoulder markings, and the one hundred other things that an auto-driving car sees so that different programmers don't have to program all the myriad variations that befuddle these systems.

 

[mongo]

Europe definitely marks their highways nicely. But generally, safety standards are higher on US highways with regard to crash protection.

I wish the government steps up and comes up with a national standard for traffic lights, road signs, shoulder markings, and the one hundred other things that an auto-driving car sees so that different programmers don't have to program all the myriad variations that befuddle these systems.

My two cents:
That's great until something (natural disaster, crash, wind) causes the signal to not match the overly fitted software's detection routine. Then you are back to chaos. Might as well just go hard coded/ dead reckoning maps instead. Better to handle a wide variation than rely on standardization.

 

[captainfrisket]

That looks terrible.

On a related note, who carries a fire extinguisher? I've always had extinguishers in my ICE vehicles but assumed it wasn't need for a non-petrol vehicle.

I do. Every car. I wish insurance companies would give you a small break as an incentive to get people to carry them.

I had a friend who bought a beautiful classic beetle. First drive out and it caught fire at a stop sign (previous owner committed the cardinal sin of putting an inline fuel filter over the air cooled engine, and my friend committed the sin of not checking for it - nor having a fire extinguisher in a classic car). He watched the car burn while waiting 15min for the fire department to arrive. If he had a fire extinguisher, he could have probably gotten it out right when the fire started. The car was wrecked and it took years to rebuild, but it could have been much worse.

Always carry a fire extinguisher. It may save your day - or someone else's!

 

[AviP]

I drove by this same junction this afternoon, and noticed they fixed the smart cushion:
View attachment 289537

However they still leave the outdated sign there:
View attachment 289538

Since then, every time I drove by this section, I have a horrible feeling for knowing how negligence cost peoples lives.

You are contributing to that negligence. Stop taking photos while driving. Is it really worth taking those photos to post to strangers on this forum.

 

[MP3Mike]

You are contributing to that negligence. Stop taking photos while driving. Is it really worth taking those photos to post to strangers on this forum.

Those look like stills that were pulled out of a dashcam video, not from him holding his phone/camera and actually taking a picture.

 

[MXWing]

Considering the crash structure absorbs a constant amount of energy, everything else equal, in this particular crash type, a lighter car would have fared better. i.e. I'd choose the smallest car that aces the EuroNCAP / IIHS overlap and IIHS small overlap tests.

Which reminds me that the only Tesla tested on IIHS is the Model S, which did NOT achieve good scores in the small overlap test, even after two sets of "fixes" from Tesla.

Yes, you are correct. In another post which I should have stressed here as well is you need a general purpose car that is safe for everyday situations.

Realistically, collisions that I would expect to be in is rear end collisions, and side collisions which carries over a rollover risk and extra damage beyond the initial kinetic impact.

The X's skateboard platform definitely makes it superior in the rollover scenario.

 

[bro1999]

NTSB will investigate the crash: NTSB Probing Tesla That Caught Fire in California Crash

 

[TEG]

NTSB will investigate the crash: NTSB Probing Tesla That Caught Fire in California Crash

NTSB_Newsroom on Twitter

2 NTSB investigators conducting Field Investigation for fatal March 23, 2018, crash of a Tesla near Mountain View, CA. Unclear if automated control system was active at time of crash. Issues examined include: post-crash fire, steps to make vehicle safe for removal from scene.

 

[SMAlset]

Like many here I suppose it's hard not to be thinking about this driver's accident from many fronts days after his death. I'm glad the NTSB will get involved as I hope it will prompt a deeper look into a number of factors, and I'm sure the roadway and barriers will be included, but would that be presumptuous of me to think? Really not sure what their scope of inquiry would be. Given the post just above the focus may fall short of what I'd like to see investigated.

Personally I'd like to see an animation done based on witness accounts, dashcams and the car debris to illustrate how this likely occured. Hopefully there are sufficient photos/videos turned over to the police to know where parts of the car landed before cleanup was underway. I could see it might also be helpful to have those parts for Tesla to review. Anyone know what happens to auto debris in accidents? News video shows it being collected in metal trash cans throughout the day. With this being a BEV it's understandable to draw more attention as more BEVs will soon be on the road. I know Tesla takes safety very seriously and has worked hard designing their cars to get superior ratings on their vehicles.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

NTSB_Newsroom on Twitter

Wow. I see people are already bringing up the "wheels fell off" theory once again. <sigh>

 

[FlyF4]

NTSB_Newsroom on Twitter

Hmmmm, the stock isn't going to like that.

 

[ddkilzer]

I reported that attenuation barrier being collapsed on Sunday using the form on the CALTRANS Traffic or Work Zone Concern:

Personally I call the crews responsible for the area when I see a safety, storm water or trash issue in the area I live. There is a # to call for the public to send complaints (or compliments, super rare but does happen up here) and the crew has 24 hrs to respond and check on the problem. We get hundreds a week in a ~100k populated area. I actually sit near the lady who takes our calls, some are craaazy, many are valid. Either way the maintenance supervisor needs to address the call and respond.

Contact Caltrans

Please do your part to help us if you see a problem!
At least those signs should have been reported long ago! Not sure when the smart cushion was hit? Was it reported?
We are all in his together, our culture sucks, it needs to change.
I was just in Taipei and actually would consider living in the craziness because the culture and people are actually nice(...and food mmmmm)

I'm not sure how many other folks also reported it, but I'm glad to see it was repaired on Monday, March 26:

I drove by this same junction this afternoon, and noticed they fixed the smart cushion:
View attachment 289537

However they still leave the outdated sign there:
View attachment 289538

Since then, every time I drove by this section, I have a horrible feeling for knowing how negligence cost peoples lives.

Prior to CALTRANS actually fixing the attenuation barrier, I was going to suggest that SF Bay Area residents contact their elected officials about the repair record of that attenuation barrier, as well as the crash history of that interchange. I see CA Senator Jim Beall tweets a lot about a bill named "SB 1" that provides funding to improve California roads, so he may be a good person to contact if you're a constituent. If you have something to say, it might not be a bad idea regardless, even with the NTSA now investigating (a limited portion) of the crash:

NTSB will investigate the crash: NTSB Probing Tesla That Caught Fire in California Crash

NOTE: The Find Your California Representative website lets you find your CA state senator and CA state representative. I know the webpage looks suspicious for not using a secure connection and few other things to identify it, but it's linked from California State Legislature under the "Find My District" section at the bottom of the right-hand column.

 

[SMAlset]

@ddkilzer maybe your report got the work started and I gave you a like for that. I'd be disappointed if it wasn't already on their radar however. Maybe some Caltrans person saw the video of the accident and had it hit home. Glad to see it extended now in any event.

Sadly I don't put much faith these days in getting anything meaningful done the congressional route. It's hard to know who to try to reach with the power, time and determination to look into this and get changes made. Maybe one of the local news team investigative units? Maybe some award down the road for their work as incentive and bringing more safety to our overcrowded roadway?

 

[Az_Rael]

Anyone know what happens to auto debris in accidents? News video shows it being collected in metal trash cans throughout the day.

I only have one example, but after my accident, all the liberated car parts (rear door, wheel, suspension components, a rear bumper that flew over an embankment and a fence) were retrieved and thrown in my trunk or up on the tow truck and were taken to the salvage yard with my car. The other dudes missing car parts went to the yard with his car. All my loose parts were sold with the car when it auctioned.

Now, none of that was particularly hazardous, so there may be different rules for say, loose batteries.

 

[ahmadr]

perhaps you missed the revelation back about a dozen pages earlier in this thread (?), but another TMC member posted dashcam video recorded 1.5 hours earlier that same morning showing that impact barrier was ALREADY in a compressed/damaged state (from some prior impact) before the accident with the Model X occurred. So, sadly the barrier was in no state to absorb the energy it was designed to do, whether MX-weight vehicle or not.

I totally missed the post. That's criminal

 

[ggnykk]

At the least I can't understand why they can't install some of these in front of each of these cushion devices.

Seems dumb not to use them given that they are very cheap, makes lots of noise, and will compel a driver to take action with their vehicle in tact as soon as they hit a few of these. Then the cushioning device can be used as a last resort and I bet they will be replacing a lot fewer cushion devices if they places a dozen or two of these in front of each cushion device.

Sometimes a low tech high visibility approach is better than a fancy cushioning device.

And they should just use the huge yellow bucket with sand or water in it, instead of the way more expensive "smart cushion" thing. Yellow bucket with water or sand is just as effective in slowing down the car.