There could be scenarios like tire blew out, steering failed, another car knocked him into it, etc. NTSB is investigating so if it is possible to know they will try to find out.
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Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)
- Thread starter mookhead
- Start date
lemketron
Member
And today's update from the Tesla blog:
An Update on Last Week’s Accident
The Tesla Team March 30, 2018
Since posting our first update, we have been working as quickly as possible to establish the facts of last week’s accident. Our hearts are with the family and friends who have been affected by this tragedy.
The safety of our customers is our top priority, which is why we are working closely with investigators to understand what happened, and what we can do to prevent this from happening in the future. After the logs from the computer inside the vehicle were recovered, we have more information about what may have happened.
In the moments before the collision, which occurred at 9:27 a.m. on Friday, March 23rd, Autopilot was engaged with the adaptive cruise control follow-distance set to minimum. The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken.
The reason this crash was so severe is because the crash attenuator, a highway safety barrier which is designed to reduce the impact into a concrete lane divider, had been crushed in a prior accident without being replaced. We have never seen this level of damage to a Model X in any other crash.
Over a year ago, our first iteration of Autopilot was found by the U.S. government to reduce crash rates by as much as 40%. Internal data confirms that recent updates to Autopilot have improved system reliability.
In the US, there is one automotive fatality every 86 million miles across all vehicles from all manufacturers. For Tesla, there is one fatality, including known pedestrian fatalities, every 320 million miles in vehicles equipped with Autopilot hardware. If you are driving a Tesla equipped with Autopilot hardware, you are 3.7 times less likely to be involved in a fatal accident.
Tesla Autopilot does not prevent all accidents – such a standard would be impossible – but it makes them much less likely to occur. It unequivocally makes the world safer for the vehicle occupants, pedestrians and cyclists.
No one knows about the accidents that didn’t happen, only the ones that did. The consequences of the public not using Autopilot, because of an inaccurate belief that it is less safe, would be extremely severe. There are about 1.25 million automotive deaths worldwide. If the current safety level of a Tesla vehicle were to be applied, it would mean about 900,000 lives saved per year. We expect the safety level of autonomous cars to be 10 times safer than non-autonomous cars.
In the past, when we have brought up statistical safety points, we have been criticized for doing so, implying that we lack empathy for the tragedy that just occurred. Nothing could be further from the truth. We care deeply for and feel indebted to those who chose to put their trust in us. However, we must also care about people now and in the future whose lives may be saved if they know that Autopilot improves safety. None of this changes how devastating an event like this is or how much we feel for our customer's family and friends. We are incredibly sorry for their loss.
The Tesla Team March 30, 2018
Since posting our first update, we have been working as quickly as possible to establish the facts of last week’s accident. Our hearts are with the family and friends who have been affected by this tragedy.
The safety of our customers is our top priority, which is why we are working closely with investigators to understand what happened, and what we can do to prevent this from happening in the future. After the logs from the computer inside the vehicle were recovered, we have more information about what may have happened.
In the moments before the collision, which occurred at 9:27 a.m. on Friday, March 23rd, Autopilot was engaged with the adaptive cruise control follow-distance set to minimum. The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken.
The reason this crash was so severe is because the crash attenuator, a highway safety barrier which is designed to reduce the impact into a concrete lane divider, had been crushed in a prior accident without being replaced. We have never seen this level of damage to a Model X in any other crash.
Over a year ago, our first iteration of Autopilot was found by the U.S. government to reduce crash rates by as much as 40%. Internal data confirms that recent updates to Autopilot have improved system reliability.
In the US, there is one automotive fatality every 86 million miles across all vehicles from all manufacturers. For Tesla, there is one fatality, including known pedestrian fatalities, every 320 million miles in vehicles equipped with Autopilot hardware. If you are driving a Tesla equipped with Autopilot hardware, you are 3.7 times less likely to be involved in a fatal accident.
Tesla Autopilot does not prevent all accidents – such a standard would be impossible – but it makes them much less likely to occur. It unequivocally makes the world safer for the vehicle occupants, pedestrians and cyclists.
No one knows about the accidents that didn’t happen, only the ones that did. The consequences of the public not using Autopilot, because of an inaccurate belief that it is less safe, would be extremely severe. There are about 1.25 million automotive deaths worldwide. If the current safety level of a Tesla vehicle were to be applied, it would mean about 900,000 lives saved per year. We expect the safety level of autonomous cars to be 10 times safer than non-autonomous cars.
In the past, when we have brought up statistical safety points, we have been criticized for doing so, implying that we lack empathy for the tragedy that just occurred. Nothing could be further from the truth. We care deeply for and feel indebted to those who chose to put their trust in us. However, we must also care about people now and in the future whose lives may be saved if they know that Autopilot improves safety. None of this changes how devastating an event like this is or how much we feel for our customer's family and friends. We are incredibly sorry for their loss.
So question, it says TACC but not Auto-Steer. So basically just cruise control? And it would or wouldn't keep you in a lane? I would never drive at highway speed with it set min. distance. For those of you who use AP regularly looking forward to hear your comments.
Gosh I wonder what he was doing in those last 6 seconds that he didn't take any action. I'm assuming that there's no way other than eyewitness accounts to know what lane he was driving in. Maybe there was some medical issue going on or maybe as simple as some distraction in the car. Since the CHP said he was driving highway speed, and considering the extent of the crash, it must have been 65mph or more. Maybe we will get that info as well from Tesla. Definitely be looking for the other investigative reports when they come out and hopefully ABC7s indepth look, I hope, at accident reports for that area. I read the words and comprehend them but still hard to understand how he could not have been paying attention at that critical juncture in a road he traveled each day to work. Tough news to digest.
Gosh I wonder what he was doing in those last 6 seconds that he didn't take any action. I'm assuming that there's no way other than eyewitness accounts to know what lane he was driving in. Maybe there was some medical issue going on or maybe as simple as some distraction in the car. Since the CHP said he was driving highway speed, and considering the extent of the crash, it must have been 65mph or more. Maybe we will get that info as well from Tesla. Definitely be looking for the other investigative reports when they come out and hopefully ABC7s indepth look, I hope, at accident reports for that area. I read the words and comprehend them but still hard to understand how he could not have been paying attention at that critical juncture in a road he traveled each day to work. Tough news to digest.
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It doesn't say how long they think the car was in the gore area. Did it stay in that non-lane the whole time? ..."five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider"... does that imply that it was in the gore area that whole time? I just rewatched one of those dashcam videos of the area and 5 seconds seems about right for the whole gore area at highway speeds.
Also it doesn't say anything about lane change requests.
Also it doesn't say anything about lane change requests.
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The next time you're in the passenger seat, try to see how long you can shadow drive before your mind involuntary wanders. Try to maintain strict attention 100% of the time for an hour. Your actual attentional rate will be less than 50%. It's not your fault; that's how the mind works.
Does it? We use the adaptive Cuise Control but don't turn on Autosteer. Believe my husband has used Autosteer on one or two occasions to check it out on a highway that was not being heavily traveled. We're pretty cautious still with the technology.
From the manual:
Autosteer builds upon Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (see Traffic-Aware Cruise Control on page 76), intelligently keeping Model S in its driving lane when cruising at a set speed.
Before you can operate Autosteer, you must enable it by touching Controls > Settings > Driver Assistance > Autosteer > ON.
There are also warnings on how to use it and it's limitation.
I think Tesla made a point of saying he was using the AP TACC feature only otherwise would have included it was on Autosteer as well.
Update: so thought occurred to me that since they mentioned the beeps and warnings if this was unique to Autosteer and it is, so yes he must have had it activated as well.
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nope. it's intentionally vaguely worded. What happened is he got some warnings "earlier in the drive" - no word on how early, but if you drove autopilot in the past - you get those nags all the time even if you are holding the steering wheel, so this tells us pretty much nothing.
lemketron
Member
Yes, there are several things that would be nice to know, which they might actually know, but were not (at this point) shared.
We don't know how the car got into the gore lane, but the bottom line is that the car was trying to tell the driver to take the wheel and steer, and he apparently refused (or was for some reason unable) to do so. :-(
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I'm
I'm with you. He didn't touch the wheel for 6 seconds prior to the crash & could see the barrier for 5 of those seconds. There must be a reason he didn't take the wheel.
Unfortunately they could also revise one of the sentences in the blog post to say "The driver AND AP had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken."
Wow..what a set back. How did it happen? They don't say when AP was engaged , but assuming worst case, that it was engaged well before the gore point, then it is possible that at the start of the gore point AP read the outer gore lane line as the line to follow -- perhaps the line that it should have followed was faded? So it was ignored and crossed? Driving right in the gore point as a lane.
It would be better AP design to read a faded unchevroned gore point better and stay out of it. And also better design to sense and warn and brake for an impending collision with barrier in the middle of the perceived "lane."
But even more blamewworthy factors are:
1) driver should have been watching and paying attention and steered or braked.
2) Caltrans should paint the gore point lines better.
3) Caltrans should have fixed the smart cushion.
Any one of those factors would likely have saved this life. Very unlucky that all three happened in this case.
Wow..what a set back. How did it happen? They don't say when AP was engaged , but assuming worst case, that it was engaged well before the gore point, then it is possible that at the start of the gore point AP read the outer gore lane line as the line to follow -- perhaps the line that it should have followed was faded? So it was ignored and crossed? Driving right in the gore point as a lane.
It would be better AP design to read a faded unchevroned gore point better and stay out of it. And also better design to sense and warn and brake for an impending collision with barrier in the middle of the perceived "lane."
But even more blamewworthy factors are:
1) driver should have been watching and paying attention and steered or braked.
2) Caltrans should paint the gore point lines better.
3) Caltrans should have fixed the smart cushion.
Any one of those factors would likely have saved this life. Very unlucky that all three happened in this case.
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Kant.Ing
Member
It's clear that humans are fallible.
It's clear that AP is fallible.
It follows that every so often both AP and human will fall simultaneously.
The only question is whether AP makes some humans more fallible than if AP were not available—or increases the severity of the consequences. So far this is the third AP fatality.
It's clear that AP is fallible.
It follows that every so often both AP and human will fall simultaneously.
The only question is whether AP makes some humans more fallible than if AP were not available—or increases the severity of the consequences. So far this is the third AP fatality.
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Phil Seastrand
Member
I'm not sure what this has to do with the situation at hand? If I'm a passenger, I'm not expected to pay attention 100% of the time. However, if I'm sitting in the driver's seat, I am.
I drive often in 2-3 hour stretches primarily with AutoPilot and I've never had an issue with my attention span because I'm still driving. When AutoPilot is enabled, I don't have to concern myself with my speed or the details of exactly where I am in my lane and how much foot or hand pressure I need to apply to maintain my speed and direction. Instead my attention is on the situations immediately surrounding my car and what's happening in my line of sight forward. Since I'm not bothered with the minutia of keeping my lane and speed I'm much more able to concentrate on these other far more important aspects of my driving responsibilities. AutoPilot HELPS me drive the car more safely.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
It's pretty well-known that stationary objects may not be detected. That's not a surprise. The surprise (for me) is how long he was headed for that barrier without reacting.
From the Model X manual:
RedOctober
Member
Unfortunately we will never know what the driver was doing prior to the crash. The media and Tesla haters will use this to rip into the company again even though over a million a year die in car accidents and all those were not involving Teslas.
Point is for everyone that stated that AP will never drive you against a stationary object.
What bothers me is not why 6 seconds past by w/o reaction as obviously the driver wasn’t paying attention, what bothers me is how AP got into the gore lane and subsequently hit the diver.
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