Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[BikerPeaBody]

. The phone's battery usage info from AT&T however did support game playing usage during that morning trip up until the crash further giving credibility to that happening. I can't imagine how difficult emotionally and intellectually this must be for his wife knowing this now.

I know that there are Tesla drivers who even on this forum have said that they try to defeat the safety nags and alerts that Tesla had to put in as a result of prior recommendations. .

Yes that's sad to find out like that. But it's wild how they were putting EVERYTHING on the Tesla and Caltran as if the driver did nothing wrong and Telsa/caltran failed the driver.

I'm one of the people that occasionally used the hack But if I was to get in an accident I would take full responsibility , not blame it on Tesla or any barriers. I use it but pay attention. When you don't pay attention while driving, no matter if you're using a hack, no hack, or driving a car other than a Tesla, bad things will happen. Drivers need to own their responsibility when they don't pay attention and drive negligently

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm one of the people that occasionally used the hack But if I was to get in an accident I would take full responsibility , not blame it on Tesla or any barriers

But would your family if you died in the accident?

 

[SMAlset]

Yes that's sad to find out like that. But it's wild how they were putting EVERYTHING on the Tesla and Caltran as if the driver did nothing wrong and Telsa/caltran failed the driver.

I'm one of the people that occasionally used the hack But if I was to get in an accident I would take full responsibility , not blame it on Tesla or any barriers. I use it but pay attention. When you don't pay attention while driving, no matter if you're using a hack, no hack, or driving a car other than a Tesla, bad things will happen. Drivers need to own their responsibility when they don't pay attention and drive negligently

Had he lived who’s to say if he wouldn’t have accepted blame. I do believe the wife did not know he was playing games on his phone while operating the car. I’m sure he was very careful when his family was in the car. Considering she had his accounts of several AP tracking issues at that junction, which were supported by discussions he had with a family member and a friend, I think it’s understandable she went this route.

Not sure where this will leave her and her family without his financial support but I think there could be some settlement with Caltran over the barrier. There were three other damaged cars as a result of his impacting the wall and with I think only minor injuries. Not sure how that works with insurance in a case like this. There will also be hospital and emergency response costs. Mentioning all this as fodder for thought about accidents and those we might leave behind in worse case scenario.

 

[dhanson865]

Had he lived who’s to say if he wouldn’t have accepted blame. I do believe the wife did not know he was playing games on his phone while operating the car. I’m sure he was very careful when his family was in the car. Considering she had his accounts of several AP tracking issues at that junction, which were supported by discussions he had with a family member and a friend, I think it’s understandable she went this route.

Not sure where this will leave her and her family without his financial support but I think there could be some settlement with Caltran over the barrier. There were three other damaged cars as a result of his impacting the wall and with I think only minor injuries. Not sure how that works with insurance in a case like this. There will also be hospital and emergency response costs. Mentioning all this as fodder for thought about accidents and those we might leave behind in worse case scenario.

I could see the logic of a driver seeing a crash attenuator / barrier setup like that day in and day out and thinking, 'yeah I'm trusting the Tesla but the worst that will happen is scraping the side of my car'. I'm guessing he played the game regularly and hadn't noticed the damage on any previous drive through. So in his mind the risk of playing the game wasn't as high as it turned out to be.

If I were one of his family members I'd be going after Caltrans and quietly drop or downplay any mention of Tesla. Focus on the one external party they can and avoid fighting losing battles vs other parties.

 

[VikH]

I could see the logic of a driver seeing a crash attenuator / barrier setup like that day in and day out and thinking, 'yeah I'm trusting the Tesla but the worst that will happen is scraping the side of my car'. I'm guessing he played the game regularly and hadn't noticed the damage on any previous drive through. So in his mind the risk of playing the game wasn't as high as it turned out to be.

If I were one of his family members I'd be going after Caltrans and quietly drop or downplay any mention of Tesla. Focus on the one external party they can and avoid fighting losing battles vs other parties.

Sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can feel confident enough to play a video game while driving on AP at 70 mph. Maybe in stop and go traffic, but not driving at these speeds.

 

[SMAlset]

When I was in high school, decades ago, and taking school sponsored driver's ed class, we had a very effective demonstration using a driving simulator. It had a real car steering wheel and screen in front with various roadway scenes, also a speedometer and even accelerator/brake pedals on the floor. Anyway the instructor would run these simulations where you started driving and during one of these "lessons" you were asked to take your hands off the wheel and put them on your lap while the car was driving down the highway at speed (back then probably 55mph). The program would suddenly send the car veering out of the lane you were driving in (recall they actually simulated a blown tire too and the strong pull of the wheel from that) and you had to grab the wheel and keep the car on the road before you crashed and come to a stop. The same scenario would be run but with your hands on the wheel. The point of the lesson was to show how those few seconds it took to get your hands on the wheel to take evasive action could make all the difference in whether your crashed (and maybe died) or were able to recover. You could run this at various speeds too. Pretty effective demonstration and really a great simulator. I don't think they even do driver's ed training in schools these days.

 

[dhanson865]

Sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can feel confident enough to play a video game while driving on AP at 70 mph. Maybe in stop and go traffic, but not driving at these speeds.

Maybe you misunderstood the phrase "I can see the logic". It means I can follow a path of thought that someone might have. It does not mean I want to do it myself or that I'd suggest you do it.

The actual logic I was talking about is thinking that the situation today on that path is the same as the prior trips on that path. It was proved false logic because the crash barrier was damaged and thus conditions were different on the day of the crash than they had been vs the first time he took that route, but I can understand the thought process that gets you there.

 

[Joelc]

And six years later:

Tesla settles lawsuit over man's death in a crash involving its semi-autonomous driving software

Tesla has settled a lawsuit brought by the family of a Silicon Valley engineer who died in a crash while relying on the company’s semi-autonomous driving software. The amount Tesla paid to settle the case was not disclosed in court documents filed Monday, just a day before the trial stemming...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Tam]

And six years later:

Tesla settles lawsuit over man's death in a crash involving its semi-autonomous driving software

Tesla has settled a lawsuit brought by the family of a Silicon Valley engineer who died in a crash while relying on the company’s semi-autonomous driving software. The amount Tesla paid to settle the case was not disclosed in court documents filed Monday, just a day before the trial stemming...

finance.yahoo.com

"Tesla is building a hardcore litigation department where we directly initiate & execute lawsuits. The team will report directly to me...

My commitment:- We will never seek victory in a just case against us, even if we will probably win. - We will never surrender/settle an unjust case against us, even if we will probably lose."

 

[kabin]

"Tesla is building a hardcore litigation department where we directly initiate & execute lawsuits. The team will report directly to me...

My commitment:- We will never seek victory in a just case against us, even if we will probably win. - We will never surrender/settle an unjust case against us, even if we will probably lose."

Yuck. I thought that case was settled a long time ago. It seemed like a no-win for Tesla from a view perspectives. Even allowing a driver to play a video game seems nuts today. It's awful it took that long to settle.

 

[whitex]

"Tesla is building a hardcore litigation department where we directly initiate & execute lawsuits. The team will report directly to me...

My commitment:- We will never seek victory in a just case against us, even if we will probably win. - We will never surrender/settle an unjust case against us, even if we will probably lose."

Most of what Elon says is false. I say focus on what he does or actually accomplishes, ignore any forward looking statements. This is especially true when handing him any money, make sure you are getting what you paid for on delivery day, and anything else you expect is in writing in official documents, ideally with clear consequences of failure to deliver. Don't forget to make sure to interpret everything with extreme minimalistic approach (as far as Tesla deliverables). For example, when Elon sold a 700hp P85D, Tesla listed the "motor power" of the car as 691hp. The minimalistic interpretation I should have used was "motors are capable, but not the rest of the car", but it was only my second Tesla, so I was fooled - Tesla came clean 2 years later that the minimalistic interpretation was actually the correct one (P85D would have required 50% power boost for the motors to be able reach the advertised power, and Tesla of course knew that from day one since the battery had a pyro-fuse in it which would blow if you got to barely over 2/3rds of that advertised power).

Once I adapted this strategy after my 2nd Tesla, I bought two more and loved them. When Tesla tried to sell me Full Self Driving capable car, I assumed the car is, but the software in the car or the sensors of the car never will be, and that the car will never drive my kids to school nor drive for Tesla Ride Sharing Network. 8 years later I can state with certainty - most of the the 2016 Model S might have been Level 5 autonomy capable (seats, doors, windshield, floor mats - I'm sure all FSD capable), but 2016 Model S'es will never be fully self driving. Too bad so many people didn't believe me back then. Same for the "Tesla's are appreciating assets which will be worth north of $200K each the following year" - there were people who truly believed that. even in the face of simple facts, such as Tesla lease residual values which surely did not reflect an appreciating asset.

 

[cbdream99]

"Tesla is building a hardcore litigation department where we directly initiate & execute lawsuits. The team will report directly to me...

My commitment:- We will never seek victory in a just case against us, even if we will probably win. - We will never surrender/settle an unjust case against us, even if we will probably lose."

As much sympathy as I have on the deceased, I am not sure why Tesla is willing to settle it, maybe it is about publicity or hassle of long litigation only hurt FSD, especially if it becomes a public court, social media fiasco then it will be a total distraction and really a no win for everyone. Back in those days, FSD is a joke and cannot be trusted, even today I can trust it on highway more but still have to pay attention for anything can happen.

 

[Tam]

...but still have to pay attention for anything can happen.

Last year, Tesla won 2 separate Autopilot lawsuits. Each jury sided with Tesla and blamed the drivers for being distracted.

I guess, this time, the lawyers learned from those 2 lost cases, revised their strategy, and were able to get a settlement.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Guys, we have no clue why Tesla settled. Maybe the family decided to settle for a reasonable dollar amount. Maybe Tesla just didn't want a public trial right now. We just don't know.

 

[Tam]

"Tesla acknowledged that its data and analysis showed that four times in the 35 days before Huang’s crash, “Autopilot steered slightly to the left at this same gore area,” and Huang each time “almost immediately corrected the steer by turning the wheel back to the right.” But the company claimed that its data showed that in the days before the incident, Huang had been increasing the time he spent on Autopilot with his hands off the wheel, reaching a point of “extraordinary misuse” of the system."

 

[Cosmacelf]

FWIW, I still think Caltrans should have been held partially liable. That gore divider had zero zebra stripes/chevrons going into it. Only very confusing lane markings, and if you didn’t look far enough ahead, you could easily think it was a lane. And finally, the crash absorption barrier hadn’t been reset and was useless.

 

[Tam]

FWIW, I still think Caltrans should have been held partially liable. That gore divider had zero zebra stripes going into it. Only very confusing lane markings, and if you didn’t look far enough ahead, you could easily think it was a lane. And finally, the crash absorption barrier hadn’t been reset and was useless.

That sounds about right.

I don't think the other 2 Autopilot lawsuits had a specific NHTSA investigation. They may all lump in a generic investigation together with multiple other Autopilot accidents.

This NHTSA case has specific findings that blame multiple parties and not just one single one alone:

1. Inattentive driver
2. No Apple driving auto phone disabled.
3. No effective Tesla driver monitoring system.
4. Absorption barrier not timeline serviced...

This, if this goes to court, it's true that the driver was inattentive but Tesla might also have to pay up the penalty for the inadequate driver monitoring system.

 

[TEG]

FWIW, I still think Caltrans should have been held partially liable. That gore divider had zero zebra stripes/chevrons going into it. Only very confusing lane markings, and if you didn’t look far enough ahead, you could easily think it was a lane. And finally, the crash absorption barrier hadn’t been reset and was useless.

I live near that area and it was a "death trap" of sorts. The crash cushion had still been compacted from when a drunk Prius driver rammed it a couple weeks before the Tesla. The crash cushion company publishes safety data on what happens when someone hits a reset cushion, but not what happens when you hit one that wasn't reset. All the attention from the Tesla mishap led Caltrans to repaint and mark the area much better now, but it still is a dangerous interchange. Like a lot of things, the 85 addition to the 101 Freeway was somewhat of a "tack on" with that somewhat unusual carpool lane left exit which can confuse some drivers, and possibly the autopilot software as well.

Recent:

Before when the "gore area" looked like a lane you could use:

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I still think it was suicide considering he knew it had trouble in that area and he let it run into the median.

 

[DanCar]

I still think it was suicide considering he knew it had trouble in that area and he let it run into the median.

He was just about to reach the high score in the game he was playing.