Model X Frunk Strength?

[jimtelsa]

Another reason to make it automatic. They could at very least use electric latch. You do make good point that frunk area contains safety disconnect so it maybe one of the reasons why it's not motorized.

Make it so it only opens in Park. Latch locked otherwise.

 

[jeffreys]

I understand why power open is a problem. Why is power-close a problem?

 

[Superloud]

Model X has the same issue, and the owner's manual displayed on the touch screen is very specific where those safe areas are.

Thank you Mark!!

This is really the heart of what I wanted to know. At least it's a fact - that the Model X frunk is probably the same.
So I don't have to factor that into the price difference between the S and the X.

Whether or not one can live with it is an opinion, which I need to make up my own mind on.

When I first started reading about it, I was like, that is so trash! I have 2 and 4 year olds, and I want that frunk to be easily usable ~4 times a day to keep my stuff safe, and out of view of prying eyes.
I'm not keen on the added headache of having to police who's doing what with the trunk. My boys are massively curious, and anything they see, they want to do as well. Not to mention the wife...
I can see her going, "and how much did you spend on this?" as I instruct her on precisely how to close the trunk every time.

Although I'll admit, the initial bad feelings are starting to wear off. The posters saying it's not that big a deal make me think...maybe it's not that big a deal.
And honestly, the fact the Model X has the same issue means Tesla doesn't think it was enough of a design fail to change it.
Also, I just went to the San Jose car show, and was pressing on the aluminum hood of the new F-150 and boy, that thing feels as flimsy as a soda can. So...maybe it's just the nature of the beast.

I think I'll go check out the Model S in the show room again for this particular reason, and see how it feels to close the frunk.

 

[Mark Z]

...At least it's a fact - that the Model X frunk is probably the same...

I asked at another thread if an interior decorative cover is now included with more recent Model X. Here is how my early VIN Model X appeared as delivered without a cover installed:

Showing the structural photo here is pertinent since the question is about frunk strength.

 

[andrewket]

It's not really an issue. Just don't slam it closed.

 

[vandacca]

It's not really an issue. Just don't slam it closed.

I see this being a design weakness. If the use of the product requires special care and/or instructions, then it's a poor design. Now, I can't really comment on this until I actually see and try it for myself, and I'll probably agree with everyone that it's a trivial matter. Until then, I'll keep checking my Email for an invite to configure...

 

[mdevp]

Another reason to make it automatic. They could at very least use electric latch. You do make good point that frunk area contains safety disconnect so it maybe one of the reasons why it's not motorized.

Are there any cars w/an automatic closing/opening front trunk/frunk? Obviously there are many high end rear engine cars that could utilize this but I haven't heard of any. It may be b/c of either U.S or Euro regulations.

 

[Mark Z]

I see this being a design weakness. If the use of the product requires special care and/or instructions, then it's a poor design...

It didn't seem to affect the Consumer Reports ratings of Model S.

I agree with andrewket, it is a non-issue. For those concerned, just visit any Tesla location and ask them to show how it is closed and if you can try it.

I was taught carefully by the DS in November 2012 how to close the frunk. That training has served me well. Feel the force that you are applying and let that be your guide. It's not rocket science, it's an open and shut case.

 

[Vizir]

I see this being a design weakness. If the use of the product requires special care and/or instructions, then it's a poor design. Now, I can't really comment on this until I actually see and try it for myself, and I'll probably agree with everyone that it's a trivial matter. Until then, I'll keep checking my Email for an invite to configure...

Try playing with acid or construction equipment without taking special care [emoji23]

 

[goneskiian]

I see this being a design weakness. If the use of the product requires special care and/or instructions, then it's a poor design. Now, I can't really comment on this until I actually see and try it for myself, and I'll probably agree with everyone that it's a trivial matter. Until then, I'll keep checking my Email for an invite to configure...

If we all weren't used to slamming the hoods of our ICE vehicles would you still consider it a "design weakness"?

 

[vandacca]

It didn't seem to affect the Consumer Reports ratings of Model S.

I agree with andrewket, it is a non-issue. For those concerned, just visit any Tesla location and ask them to show how it is closed and if you can try it.

I was taught carefully by the DS in November 2012 how to close the frunk. That training has served me well. Feel the force that you are applying and let that be your guide. It's not rocket science, it's an open and shut case.

Thanks for your comment Mark. I'm sure I'll agree once I have a chance to play with it.

However, my original point has to do with good design practises. Those sticky tags on fruit are easy enough to peel off (once you get it started), but they're a poor design as well. The whole process of trying to peel them off without doing too much damage to the skin of the fruit, and then trying to flick it into a trash bin is a lot of wasted effort.

If training is involved, or if one has to be careful of inexperienced users, then the design could have been better. Sure, we can train ourselves to work-around the limitations, and eventually become 2nd nature, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

see the following TED Talk for what I meant.

 

[ohmman]

Closing in on two years with my MS, never been a problem. It's just not an issue - the issue is that it's a manual open/close, which makes it something I am tremendously less likely to use on a daily basis. Opening the hatch or the back doors is that much easier (and cleaner), so I just use those.

My frunk is used on road trips, for added space (usually loaded with our pillows BTW), and the "microwave" area includes all of my charging adapters, UMC, and my (ahem) extension cord. I imagine I'll use the frunk on my MX for the same things, and will put almost everything in the back under or over the divider.

 

[vandacca]

If we all weren't used to slamming the hoods of our ICE vehicles would you still consider it a "design weakness"?

I've got a big F150 pickup and I've never slammed the hood or had to slam it to get it shut. There is a nice hydraulic mechanism that prevents it from slamming shut. I think the slamming of hoods came-about because of extremely heavy hoods without the necessary support. I'm not sure how heavy the S or X hood is like, but hopefully if someone accidently lets go when lowering it, it won't slam down on it's own.

Again, I'm sure this is all unnecessary conversation. Just wasting some time till 1pm Pacific today when I'm hoping to get a configuration Email...

 

[Mark Z]

...my original point has to do with good design practices...see the following TED Talk for what I meant.

I enjoyed the TED Talk, and was amused when my brain thought, "just buy a bag of fruit with no stickers". At the end, the mailbox was mentioned, and I laughed a bit. Why? Because when my mailbox is opened, I get an email on the smartphone and a pleasant chime occurs in the house. Home automation solves a lot of things where we want change, and it works well.

However, there are times when too much automation makes things worse. My Model X rear seats have electric latches that don't function if the car doesn't want me to lower the rear seats. They remain up until I get the vehicle to the Tesla Service Center! The manual latch didn't have that problem, so just as the thermostat that is easy to use got harder, our Model X rear seats are harder to use at times.

Back to the frunk hood. There is one advantage to the manual locking. I personally get to check that that lid is firmly secure each time it is closed. If it was to fly open during a drive, it would be a dangerous situation. I would love a pull down feature to pull the hood shut, but Tesla has not added that feature. Another option would be to put the hinge at the front, but would you like to load it from the side? So many solutions, but life is short and one can only suggest to Tesla what they would like in the future. After making the suggestion, spend the time to learn how the existing vehicle works to avoid trouble and train others who may need to close the frunk.

One other benefit of the manual close. Sometimes I place too much in the frunk and get to feel the lid not closing. The problem is solved without damage to the metal from underneath. Since it's not made of glass, I can't see what the obstruction is, I must feel it. That works best with the current technique of closing the frunk. I hope that scenario helps turn a frustration into a feature.

 

[MiddKid]

If we all weren't used to slamming the hoods of our ICE vehicles would you still consider it a "design weakness"?

Yes I would. Consider:
- My local dent repair guy has worked on numerous frunks direct from the factory, way before any slamming of the hood has taken place.
- The day I first contacted him about my frunk dent, he emailed back with "I just spent the last 2 hours working on that exact dent." It has become commonplace for him to work on the frunk crease.
- My frunk developed the crease at 3 months old...and trust me...there was no slamming involved.
- He didn't have to bill me for the work...why? Because he had an open PO with Tesla just for frunk dents. He fixes them and then auto-bills Tesla. No approval needed.
- Tesla went through the effort of changing the design of the frunk. The same dent guy took me through the changes in detail. He said it's better, but the problem still exists.
- Side note on dent guy...the parking lot is filled with uber-high end vehicles. He knows his stuff.
- Tesla had to modify the manual to add a picture showing how to close it properly. That picture puts a big red box over pushing in the middle of the frunk. The exact way my delivery specialist originally told us to close it.

So while I agree with everyone that it is not the type of thing that impacts ones' purchasing decision (I have an X on order to replace my S), I'd definitely call it a design weakness.

 

[vandacca]

I enjoyed the TED Talk, and was amused when my brain thought, "just buy a bag of fruit with no stickers". At the end, the mailbox was mentioned, and I laughed a bit. Why? Because when my mailbox is opened, I get an email on the smartphone and a pleasant chime occurs in the house. Home automation solves a lot of things where we want change, and it works well.

However, there are times when too much automation makes things worse. My Model X rear seats have electric latches that don't function if the car doesn't want me to lower the rear seats. They remain up until I get the vehicle to the Tesla Service Center! The manual latch didn't have that problem, so just as the thermostat that is easy to use got harder, our Model X rear seats are harder to use at times.

Back to the frunk hood. There is one advantage to the manual locking. I personally get to check that that lid is firmly secure each time it is closed. If it was to fly open during a drive, it would be a dangerous situation. I would love a pull down feature to pull the hood shut, but Tesla has not added that feature. Another option would be to put the hinge at the front, but would you like to load it from the side? So many solutions, but life is short and one can only suggest to Tesla what they would like in the future. After making the suggestion, spend the time to learn how the existing vehicle works to avoid trouble and train others who may need to close the frunk.

One other benefit of the manual close. Sometimes I place too much in the frunk and get to feel the lid not closing. The problem is solved without damage to the metal from underneath. Since it's not made of glass, I can't see what the obstruction is, I must feel it. That works best with the current technique of closing the frunk. I hope that scenario helps turn a frustration into a feature.

I know what you mean about too much automation. I'm a bit concerned about the longevity and reliability of all those motors in the X. I know that an electrical motor has become fairly reliable, but there are so many of them that odds get worse. My concerns are somewhat eased by Tesla's current service reputation.

But I'm okay with manual locks and such, including the frunk. In fact, I got a manual 4wd on my F150 for that particular reason. Never had a problem with it in 18 years.

With regards to those fruit stickers, I remember seeing a laser-etcher that did away with them. It was cheaper for the fruit producers (because they didn't have to stop the machines every time those stickers gummed up the system) and more convenient for the consumer. I guess they never took off for other reasons.

BTW, no invite yet. :-( I guess there is always next week...

 

[Ldub22]

My apologies if I'm not quite understanding or if I'm not asking quite clearly.

I certainly appreciate those model S owners who are chiming in saying they have no issues. But from my readings, it seems like you folks may just be the luckier ones. There seems to be a ton of variables, from whether you have old 2 latch design vs the newer reinforced design...to how "easy" it is to depress your particular frunk to make it latch...
With all respect, I can't determine in this thread if the model S situation is a deal breaker without replaying all the previous threads and figuring out where the model S I'd buy would fall in the spectrum (I'd be looking at a 2013 P85 probably)

So, there's something going on with the S...let's call it, "it". I don't know exactly what "it" is. But I want to know if "it" has been totally solved on the X or not?

Also, I hear the opinion that I shouldn't base my whole decision on the frunk. I get that - and maybe I agree that even if you get the crease, maybe you just say whatever, a car is a car, it's gonna get hurt, you just try and avoid it but if it happens you just live with it. If I unknowingly bought an S and got the crease, for sure that's how I'd deal. But going into this decision, if I know the X frunk has zero issues, I can assign a $ value to this and see how everything shakes out.

my line of thinking is I can either get a loaded 2013 P85 for like $67k tax incl., or a relatively bare P70D X for maybe $87k after all taxes and credits. I'd be giving up AP, and a bunch of stuff, but I'd save $20k. But maybe it's worth $4k of that delta in peace of mind for me to just never have to run screaming across a carwash parking lot as some worker slams by frunk, and to not have to forbid all family and friends from using the frunk. Actually, not having to lecture (and monitor/enforce) my wife on this procedure is worth $4k!!

I'm afraid that this is a case of you listening to forum rants over people with actual experience. I have had my Model S for almost a year, and I can say that the people who have problems most probably are careless with their frunks. You are wasting your time obsessing over this detail. Don't lose the forest through the trees! It's a great car and the frunk is easy to use.

 

[MiddKid]

I'm afraid that this is a case of you listening to forum rants over people with actual experience. I have had my Model S for almost a year, and I can say that the people who have problems most probably are careless with their frunks. You are wasting your time obsessing over this detail. Don't lose the forest through the trees! It's a great car and the frunk is easy to use.

Agree: don't obsess over it
Completely Disagree: "I can say that the people who have problems most probably are careless with their frunks." Couldn't be more wrong. Just because you haven't had a problem doesn't mean others are careless. Why was Tesla sending cars directly to dent repair before delivery? Oh, must be those careless factory workers.

 

[FlatSix911]

You may be interested in reading the current instructions ... the new design has not solved the problem

 

[Superloud]

Thanks All.

It's good to hear that I'm probably obsessing too much over this. The thing is, when you're thinking about spending 3x more than you've ever spent on a car, you want it to be perfect.

But just in case, I'm wondering if the trunk might be a workaround to this (sorry for straying off topic). If I get a Model S, I want the rear facing seats. And my understanding is that
if you have the rear facing seats, you lose the ability to have that enclosed storage space in the trunk (where I could hide say a gym bag)?
I'm also not sure if the parcel shelf would be another option? I haven't been able to find a good answer on whether you can use the parcel shelf, while the rear facing seats are open
(no kids in the seats of course!). And how usable that whole situation is? I've read that when you have the cover for the rear facing seats, and the parcel shelf kicking around,
you need to throw them both in the frunk if the kids are going to sit in the 3rd row...
a lot to think about.