Model X Plaid : Track Package and CCBs

[Kan-O-Z]

what a garbage answer

Yeah lots of fanboys here not willing to even hear anything negative.

 

[muzhik]

CCB feels totally different on MS, wish we can get same on MX...

 

[NeuroRad]

Carwow did a brake test between a 911 turbo S and x plaid. Porsche is known for some of the best brake systems in the world. You’d think the difference would be bus lengths, but it wasn’t. It was actually much closer than i expected.

 

[Leifmb]

1. You didn't slam on the brakes hard enough.
2. You didn't even engage the ABS.
3. You didn't brake hard enough, multiple times to trigger the brake warning light.
4. This wasn't even a Model X ffs.
5. Lots of Boy Racers like to post nonsense about plaid brakes, ignorant of the fact that the stock (even the old) Plaid brakes lock up the brakes enough to get to the limit of the tires, and thus engage ABS, and brakes better than other comparable cars. See below.
6. Reliable testing by reliable car authorities (not silly twitter or you tube Boy Racers) report that the Model S and Model X brake just fine under normal everyday driving conditions, including repeat tests from 100 mph.
7. The very very few people who actually track their car, or drive energetically enough, or perhaps under some weird other situations, that they may overheat their brakes with repeated heavy braking from high speeds, may surpass the upper thermal capacity of the stock brake components
8. Track brake components (mostly pads and fluid) will give a higher upper thermal capacity to deal with that at the expense of potentially higher *lower* thermal operating range
8. That is, cold track brake components won't work as well as cold OEM brake components.

The Stock (old) Model S brakes shorter from repeated stops from 100 mph shorter than the BMW M5 CS with BMW carbon ceramic brakes.
car and driver tests
Plaid from 100 mph: 284 feet
BMW M5 from 100: 294 feet
911 Targa from 100: 285 feet below and Tested: 2022 Porsche 911 Targa 4 GTS Demonstrates the Art of Compromise


View attachment 957051

and from 70 mph Model S is 150 while the Taycan is 159 feet (Cross Turismo is 161) by Car and Driver. (they didn't do 100 mph with the Taycan for some reason)


For the Model X:
The Model X brakes 172 feet from 70 mph
The Audi Q7 brakes 178 feet from 70 mph

These are heavy cars. At normal driving temps, including ice cold temps, the braking is limited by tire traction, not the brake components.

Only with repeated high speed braking that significantly raises the temperature of the brake components will track brake components be a benefit to work at those extreme operating temps, but at a cost of diminished cold performance as well as noise and dust and more frequent fluid changes among other things.

WOW, excellent explanation! This gives me a much better feeling of my X Plaid (early release) "el-stocko" brakes! I got this email from Tesla offering to upgrade my brakes and calipers (from black to red) for a mere $2-3K but now I think I'll just leave them alone as I dont use them to their limit....they're a little rusty-LOL

 

[ZuleMYP]

Tesla's real upgrade is entirely a different compound pad. The "majority" of the product they sell however is a cosmetic upgrade to red and taking up more space as-if it was a bigger caliper. It's not.

 

[bhzmark]

Tesla's real upgrade is entirely a different compound pad. The "majority" of the product they sell however is a cosmetic upgrade to red and taking up more space as-if it was a bigger caliper. It's not.

There is anecdata that caliper covers, red or otherwise, can help cool brakes. See video below.

So the covers, with the pad compound that has better hot temp performance (and hopefully little to no degradation of cold performance) and different brake fluid (and hopefully little to no degradation in longevity of the fluid) could all reduce brake fade from repeated high speed braking for the new stock plaid brakes.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

There is anecdata that caliper covers, red or otherwise, can help cool brakes. See video below.

So the covers, with the pad compound that has better hot temp performance (and hopefully little to no degradation of cold performance) and different brake fluid (and hopefully little to no degradation in longevity of the fluid) could all reduce brake fade from repeated high speed braking for the new stock plaid brakes.

Absolute nonsense.
It's the temperature of the rotors that's important, not the bling caliper covers.
The stock Tesla rotors (on all models) are not very efficient when it comes to dissipating heat.
Better pads which cope with higher temperatures can help if you get fade, but rotors will still be getting up to the same temperatures.
The only answer to keeping brake temps manageable is bigger/more efficient rotors, which will usually come with bigger pads.

As for stopping distances with different brake setups, this may help to show that as long as the brakes are not overheating to begin with, it doesn't make much difference what brake setup you have. If your car isn't stopping as short as you expect, just press the pedal harder!

 

[bhzmark]

It's the temperature of the rotors that's important, not the bling caliper covers.

I don’t have strong feelings about the caliper covers — only wanted to share that some believe that well designed caliper covers can act as heat sinks and provide additional cooling. If you have contrary data, especially that is relevant to the Tesla covers, please share specific concrete data with links or cites.

I agree with the point in your last sentence, and the video you linked to: that if you aren’t experiencing brake fade from repeated high speed braking, the brake upgrades won’t do anything for you. And in fact cold track brakes or cold track tires perform worse than cold stock brakes and tires.

So, your first sentence, given that the rest of your post doesn’t engage in any specific way with the rest of my post about pads and fluid, is, itself, nonsense, and in fact my parenthetical points re worse performance when cold are supported by the video. So thanks for sharing the video which was a redeeming feature of your post.

 

[ngng]

There is anecdata that caliper covers, red or otherwise, can help cool brakes. See video below.

So the covers, with the pad compound that has better hot temp performance (and hopefully little to no degradation of cold performance) and different brake fluid (and hopefully little to no degradation in longevity of the fluid) could all reduce brake fade from repeated high speed braking for the new stock plaid brakes.

...oh, you're serious

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I don’t have strong feelings about the caliper covers — only wanted to share that some believe that well designed caliper covers can act as heat sinks and provide additional cooling. If you have contrary data, especially that is relevant to the Tesla covers, please share specific concrete data with links or cites.

I agree with the point in your last sentence, and the video you linked to: that if you aren’t experiencing brake fade from repeated high speed braking, the brake upgrades won’t do anything for you. And in fact cold track brakes or cold track tires perform worse than cold stock brakes and tires.

So, your first sentence, given that the rest of your post doesn’t engage in any specific way with the rest of my post about pads and fluid, is, itself, nonsense, and in fact my parenthetical points re worse performance when cold are supported by the video. So thanks for sharing the video which was a redeeming feature of your post.

I'm not even going to bother debating the point about the covers. It's just complete rubbish from someone trying to sell their products to the gullible.
I already pointed out that different pads can improve things. Better fluid is a good idea if you're going to get the brakes to a high temperature regularly.
Don't confuse cold brake "performance" with better stopping distance though. Cold brakes can stop a car in the same distance as warm/hot brakes.
I don't know what else is there to engage with TBH.

 

[bhzmark]

Cold brakes can stop a car in the same distance as warm/hot brakes.

Smh. Did you watch your own video? And especially for track brakes which are definitely worse when cold.

Try not to pepper your posts with childish insults like “absolute nonsense” which are a poor substitute for sharing any relevant facts or evidence or otherwise making an intelligent point.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

There are many insults I could have used which would have been more childish than that but I thought it was apt for the subject in question.

How did you conclude from that video that "track brakes" are worse when cold? Worse in what way?

 

[ngng]

There are many insults I could have used which would have been more childish than that but I thought it was apt for the subject in question.

How did you conclude from that video that "track brakes" are worse when cold? Worse in what way?

I think the bit about caliper covers have any performance benefit is rubbish, but there is a difference between a true track pad vs street pad's cold performance.

 

[bhzmark]

How did you conclude from that video that "track brakes" are worse when cold? Worse in what way?

Track pads don’t work well at cold or even merely warm temps. Generally the better the high temp performance, the worse the cold performance. Search track pads under my name for lots of links and info in other threads and perhaps even this one.

 

[Leifmb]

CCB feels totally different on MS, wish we can get same on MX...

I dont see why not-they should fit because the chassis is the same!

 

[EightBitWhit]

I dont see why not-they should fit because the chassis is the same!

Agreed - we're all holding out with the hopes that the CCB kit will be offered for the Model X... I'm ready and waiting...

 

[Leifmb]

Agreed - we're all holding out with the hopes that the CCB kit will be offered for the Model X... I'm ready and waiting...

Have you contacted service to see if they will install it on a MX? I'm assuming of course that you would NOT get the track package benefits as we (MX owners) are all waiting on Track Mode to be able to have a little fun now and then with all that power!

 

[EightBitWhit]

Have you contacted service to see if they will install it on a MX? I'm assuming of course that you would NOT get the track package benefits as we (MX owners) are all waiting on Track Mode to be able to have a little fun now and then with all that power!

You bring up a good point - I have not, but I can certainly ask. I'm assuming we'd have to do the purchase through the Tesla app to get the parts assigned to our account and then they could potentially install. It feels a bit wonky, but if it works, it works! Hopefully Tesla will officially support the X Plaid soon enough - I don't see a mechanical reason why they wouldn't.

 

[terranx]

Not boy racers. Top Gear was one and there are several others. And clearly if the car is accelerating faster than it is braking then they haven't reached the limit of the tires.

I mean whether or not it accelerates faster than it brakes, fact of the matter is the car triggers ABS when on the brakes and the braking distance is comparable to other high performance cars. You’re essentially reaching the limits of physics there. And the limits in what the tires can handle accelerating are not necessarily the same as the limits when braking (weight shifting forward instead of backwards etc). Better brakes would improve brake fade and such (which is still important, especially on such a heavy car), but there isn’t really much you can do to make a panic brake faster.

Yes you have to be careful when driving the car. Because it has a thousand ****ing horsepower lol. Same idea as having to anticipate different braking distances when driving in rain, snow, etc. If you don’t think you can safely anticipate when to slow down, you should buy a slower car.

 

[Leifmb]

You bring up a good point - I have not, but I can certainly ask. I'm assuming we'd have to do the purchase through the Tesla app to get the parts assigned to our account and then they could potentially install. It feels a bit wonky, but if it works, it works! Hopefully Tesla will officially support the X Plaid soon enough - I don't see a mechanical reason why they wouldn't.

Exactly- the PARTS should fit 100% and the CCB should enable better brake performance but, is JUST that worth the $20K? I suppose IF they take your money and do the install of the parts only, which would be super cool btw, you would easily be adapted to the supposed future enabling of the Track Package for the MX if it ever really does happen.