Apologies for the new thread on this. I didn't find recent posts since Oct. The charge time of the 4680 (or what advantages I recall) prompted a re-check. Last I checked, only Austin built standard range Y's MIGHT have them (forget if there's even a way to decode the vin to see what's in there).
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Model Y LR with 4680 any clue when ?
- Thread starter closdeben
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ucmndd
Well-Known Member
YAnthony
Member
Are the Model Y LR going to Europe using 4680?
I assume everything from shanghai is 4680, so that'd be MYP, MYRWD. When Gigaberlin comes online, they could then reassign to APAC? (Guessing/asking?)
I assume everything from shanghai is 4680, so that'd be MYP, MYRWD. When Gigaberlin comes online, they could then reassign to APAC? (Guessing/asking?)
Why would Tesla ship LRMY to Europe when the LRMY vehicle is being manufactured at Tesla Gigafactory Berlin?
Currently, 4680 is only being produced at the pilot plant on Kato Road, near the company's original factory in Fremont, California. ("Tesla has confirmed that its 4680 battery cell production has now reached a level that can support the production of over 1,000 cars a week. The 4680 battery cell is a new format that Tesla unveiled back in 2020 as the automaker's first cell developed from the ground up." - Dec 25, 2022. Tesla's Gigafactory Berlin is expected to begin manufacturing 4680 sometime in the first quarter of 2023.)
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
No compelling benefit at all ? Not structural or charge speed ? Just as well. It's been a long time.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Nothing that’s really been proven in the field yet. Remains to be seen. I thought I saw some charging curves from the AWD Y that has been trickling out and it wasn’t substantially different than anything else.
I guess I’ve been around Tesla products long enough to know that you don’t want the first generation of pretty much any new tech. They are all but certain to have teething pains.
The 2170 3/Y packs on the other hand are well proven at this point and very reliable.
YAnthony
Member
I watched a video where there was a comparison made between a base M3 and the charging/retention characteristics of a MY. According to that source, the older batteries in the M3 were best if not fully charged and only topped off periodically as needed, while the MY had more recent batteries that worked better with a regualr 100% top off recommended.
One benefit of the older batteries was a longer life expectancy, but we are probably looking at well beyond 10 years for both. Both are good batteries and will last a long time, however the curve is different between the two. The older cells in the M3 base reminded me of the way Chevy recommends to charge the Bolt to 80% unless going for long trips in it. No data on how much longer the older batteries are supposed to last.
One benefit of the older batteries was a longer life expectancy, but we are probably looking at well beyond 10 years for both. Both are good batteries and will last a long time, however the curve is different between the two. The older cells in the M3 base reminded me of the way Chevy recommends to charge the Bolt to 80% unless going for long trips in it. No data on how much longer the older batteries are supposed to last.
No Model Y currently sold in the US use the lithium iron phosphate battery. The LFP battery should regularly be charged to 100%. The only Tesla vehicle currently sold in the US with the LFP battery is the Standard Range Plus Model 3.
I am finding the info a little confusing mainly because I am not sure which batteries are presently in the model Y. Lithium iron phosphate batteries must be the 4680.
Once again I am assuming on limited info, that present Model Y cars are made using 2170 ? In this video differences are discussed.
Model Y 4680 .vs 2170
4680 battery uncovered
Once again I am assuming on limited info, that present Model Y cars are made using 2170 ? In this video differences are discussed.
Model Y 4680 .vs 2170
4680 battery uncovered
bluenycom
Member
4680 does NOT have LFP for sure, at least not the ones in the current SRAWD. The chemistry is the same as LR 2170 batteries. The packaging/design for the cell is different. The only LFP battery Tesla in US now is in M3 SR rear drive, so no MY in North America has LFP battery yet.
LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries are only used in Tesla Model 3 cars in the US
the vast majority of MY variants use 2170 batteries, and the track record is exemplary
the MY-AWD uses 4680 batteries, but is not currently available to be ordered via the online configurator (it may become order-able soon though)
it was only offered to employees and to some select customers, and only for a short time this past fall
the advantage of the 4680 battery is mostly to Tesla's profit. they keep the margins that would go to a supplier (like Panasonic)
the MY-AWD range is 279 vs the MYLR at 313
however, the 4680 structural battery pack enables the MY chassis to be constructed using both Front + Rear megacasts, yielding a better chassis.
a more consistent dimensioned chassis means panel gaps 'should' be more consistent.
but that AWD weighs just 75lbs less than a MYLR, contrary to early reports of saving a lot more.
so it's "eye of the beholder" regarding which might be preferred.
Incorrect
Berlin is not, and will not be, making cars with 4680 any time soon. All equipment to make batteries was transferred to Texas.
Austin is making 4680 batteries but is not currently making MY cars with anything other than 2170 batteries.
The MY-AWD is the only car to use 4680 batteries but is not currently available to be ordered.
I thought about this at some length and, right or wrong, decided that while I'd rather have a YLR built in Austin, I'd also rather not have 4680. At some point battery replacement cost will affect the resale of my car. The huge installed, and now aging, base of 3/Y's built w/2170 suggests replacement for same will be pretty cost effective.
Logic may be flawed, but it's what i decided.
Logic may be flawed, but it's what i decided.
I really don't think there's any much difference in build quality between Austin and Fremont.I thought about this at some length and, right or wrong, decided that while I'd rather have a YLR built in Austin, I'd also rather not have 4680. At some point battery replacement cost will affect the resale of my car. The huge installed, and now aging, base of 3/Y's built w/2170 suggests replacement for same will be pretty cost effective.
Logic may be flawed, but it's what i decided.
They use the same production line equipment and suppliers.
As for 4680, yes, not worth the confusion given the info available.
I got this info from Tesla. It may be older info though. Will double check, not that it matters since I won't be buying a car from Berlin.
From what I can tell most of the hype over the 4680 battery is just hype since the composition of both 4680 and 2170 is internally the same. Only potential advantage being larger conductors on the 4680 between individual cells which may or may not make much of a difference. Most of the advantage is in less costly manufacturing processes used to make them which many hoped would be at least partially applied to reduce purchase price, yeah right....,
The different composition of the batteries in the M3 base, not to be confused with the two types already mentioned, are said to have some advantages. For some reason they tended to use those batteries in lower range models like the limited SR MY and the base M3. More expensive to make. Likely the main reason they have discontinued the batteries in addition to the different properties lending themselves better to lower range cars.
Looking into battery origins was a little dodgey because Tesla makes similar batteries to the ones they also buy from vendors. Panasonic comes out as the main player in this most recent run of MY LR and M3 cars, even though we see pictures of batteries with 'Tesla' on them. I believe Panasonic also made most of the batteries for the 2022 MY LR and MYP and M3 LR. Not that Tesla hasn't also made batteries. I think the percentage is low compared to Panasonic batteries.
Other differences are the pack housing for 4680 batteries is at least partly structural. Another cost saving strategy? 2170 batteries are proven performers and are at a middle place between cost and performance. The 300,000 mile claim on the 2170/4680 still hasn't been proven to my knowledge. All they legally owe is 8 years or 100,000 miles. I'm not doubting the claim, but I don't think it has been proven widespread in real life situations.
The good news is a replacement pack can probably be had for under 10K if after over 10 years one still wants to drive the car. That market will be opening up as EVs gain some age IMO.
Partly incorrect...
Austin is making MY cars with 4680 and they are the MY-AWD as you point out. You are correct in that they can't be custom ordered but Texas is dropping them into inventory quite regularly now.
Currently there are 18 MY-AWD with 4680 cells available in existing (new) inventory. A few days ago this was 30+. There was a big dump of them a week or so ago.
You can filter this list to just see the MYAWD cars.
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