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More Tesla Model X Fails, videos and pictures

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Debaser, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Tax credit is quite unlikely to come back. I haven't seen anyone else get it. I also haven't seen a situation where the owner got anything other than a $1/mile chargeback on mileage.
     
  2. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    This makes no sense at all. Tesla doesn't get charged for the tax benefit. If he bought the car for, say $130,000, Tesla got $130,000. The federal government is the one that forked over the $7500 (assuming that is what he got...some people don't qualify for the tax credit at all). If Tesla is going to buy back the car, it should pay what it received from the customer, less whatever adjustments are agreed upon. It's up to the federal government to reclaim the $7500 if it believes that a repurchase of the car invalidates the credit.

    If he has to pay back a tax credit that was paid for by the government, shouldn't Tesla have to return the ZEV credit it got from selling the car in the first place? In other words, they are totally unrelated transactions to the repurchase of a lemon law vehicle. If there is a clawback of the ZEV credit, that's between Tesla and the regulatory bodies, not Tesla and the customer, and likewise, if there is anything owed to the IRS for the tax credit on a repurchased car, it has nothing to do with Tesla.
     
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  3. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    Go back further in my history. I'm a huge Tesla fan. I love my Model X, and I'm angry about the problems, but Tesla promised a number of things and then in their final phone call (they would not email), they reneged on their promises. I had been asked by Tesla to take down my videos and complaints on this website around the time we started getting serious in our discussions. Ask the mods; I requested to have my posts taken down as a show of good faith with Tesla.

    I am a Tesla shareholder and did not want to make all of these problems public, as I believe the MX's coming off the line now are probably well made. However, Tesla, in my opinion, did not negotiate in good faith. I will end up with a replacement vehicle at the end of all of this, which is required by Tennessee law, but since they misled me, I will no longer stay quiet about all of my problems.
     
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  4. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    It's a purchase. Tesla has no idea how much tax credit I will get from the government, and it is none of their business. That is a benefit the government provides me, not Tesla.
     
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  5. PedanticOne

    PedanticOne MyTesla Refresh Champion

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    No idea? Really? It's pretty clearly specified in the tax code. And it's money you get to keep, regardless.
     
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  6. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    Check the code. Tax credits are based on income. If you have $0 taxable income, you get $0 tax credit. Ergo, Tesla has no idea how much credit I will receive.
     
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  7. PedanticOne

    PedanticOne MyTesla Refresh Champion

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    Well, let's be pedantic for a moment, because it's what I do. It's not based on income. The credit is used to reduce your tax liability. Yes, income certainly affects your liability, but it is an important distinction.

    In the end you are certainly correct: if your tax liability for the year is < 7500 you will not be able to take advantage of the full credit, and no Tesla has no insight into that, I agree (now that I get your point :p)
     
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  8. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    Tax liability is based on taxable income, which is what I wrote. Pedantry is like a second language to me.
     
  9. Blastphemy

    Blastphemy Member

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    I'm thankful every single day that I leased my Model X instead of buying it. Can't imagine what a depreciated mess I would have been left with, with my many visits to the service center documented for any future buyer.
     
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  10. PedanticOne

    PedanticOne MyTesla Refresh Champion

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    Sure, except when it's not. For example, if I don't buy health insurance. Then I have a liability not based on income.
     
  11. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    I don't think Tesla's calculation includes the $7500 that you may or may not receive. What they are doing is incorporating the fact that they have to sell it without that $7500 credit price bump when it becomes a CPO.

    Whether or not that's fair to you or to others doing a buyback is not part of my comment. I'm just pointing out that they're not reconciling your financial situation with respect to the credit, they're reconciling theirs.
     
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  12. Darren Donovan

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    I may be wrong, but I've read that Tesla does NOT release prior service records to a CPO buyer.
     
  13. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    No doubt. I understand their desire to discount my replacement vehicle by $7500, but I'm definitely not agreeing to it. By the way, I think they may have dropped that from their most recent offer, so maybe this site is watched by someone there. Or maybe not; who am I, Narcissus? :cool:
     
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  14. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

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    Consumer protection laws generally exist to un-wind a transaction, not force the company to offer you a replacement. It sounds like you are annoyed that they won't let you buy another Model X with unlimited supercharging, and a buy-back guarantee. So what you actually want is a car to be fixed and free of problems, not to be free of a Tesla? In that case, you have to let them fix the car. Otherwise, it sounds completely correct that they offered you a financial un-wind (minus mileage). Yep, sucks that you can't go re-buy the same Tesla, but I doubt the law covers that. I notice you're not complaining about getting an AP2 car, bigger battery, and other upgrades Tesla has introduced since then.

    Trying to argue a way to keep the $7,500 while getting Tesla to give you back all the money you spent with them doesn't help your case to sound reasonable. It sounds like you're trying to make $7,500 off the process, which damages the perception that all you want is to be made whole.

    I get it- you're frustrated, mad, angry, and feel like the $7,500 is a way to help be compensated for all this mess, but we all know trying to get Tesla to ignore it is the same as Tesla paying you $7,500 for your troubles, and that's not really reasonable to expect.

    If you really don't have $7,500 in tax liability for the year, then show Tesla your tax returns and tell them to offset that. However, as we all know, 99% of people that can afford a $100K+ car have $7,500, and will get that back (or already have!), so that really was part of the financial situation, and trying to pretend that the $7,500 was just an agreement between you and the Federal government doesn't really pass the reasonable attitude sniff test.
     
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  15. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Except the OP has posted before, IIRC, that he intends to drop these kinds of threads every few months or so until Tesla does what he wants them to do... So... Yeah...

    Jeff
     
  16. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    I'll take this piece by piece.

    (1) You speaking "generally" about consumer protection laws has nothing to do with the actual consumer protection law at issue; they are actually required to replace my vehicle if I want.
    TCA 55-24-103:
    (a) The manufacturer must replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle or accept return of the vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price if:

    (1) The nonconformity, defect or condition substantially impairs the motor vehicle; and

    (2) The manufacturer, its agent or authorized dealer is unable to conform the motor vehicle to any applicable express warranty after a reasonable number of attempts.


    (2) Lifetime supercharging and a 3 year residual buyback guarantee were bargained-for elements of the original purchase. Tesla would not have offered lifetime supercharging if they were not trying to entice purchases. As for the buyback guarantee, Elon actually said numerous times that the buyback guarantee was to make buyers comfortable that their vehicle would not depreciate more than market comparables. He would not have offered the guarantee if it was not intended to get people to buy.

    (3) I want a vehicle that has not been substantially impaired by numerous repair attempts. The resale value of my MX has been substantially impacted by having 72 days of repairs done in the first 8 months of ownership.

    (4) If you even read the law, you would know that after 30 days I don't "have" to let them "fix" the car.
    (5) Your doubts about your knowledge of the law are well-founded.
    (6) Tesla's upgrades to the vehicle are immaterial. They are charging the same amount for the upgrades. They also stopped offering ventilated seats, which my vehicle has. I am not arguing for them to bring back ventilated seats, and they should not argue for "upgrades" that cost the same.
    (7) You make a false claim about my "arguing" to keep the $7500 tax credit. I haven't argued about it. I have said the government's tax credits are none of their business. Notice I haven't "argued" that Tesla should pay me $5,000 for the HPWC I had installed at my office, because that expense has nothing to do with this transaction.
     
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  17. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    When I wrote that, Tesla had spent weeks ignoring my emails and phone calls. As soon as I posted that and started putting out videos, A representative started getting back in contact with me. I was never trying to get something I did not deserve, but I was trying to avoid a lawsuit by getting them to respond to my emails and calls.
     
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  18. contactace

    contactace Member

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    I hear you on this. I love my X but definitely has a lot of issues. My chair took 4 weeks to replace because they had to wait for that part. It worked out for me because they do have excellent service and was able to have a loaner. I rack up miles so it kinda ended up working for me.
     
  19. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    So why are you still doing it? Answer, because they're not giving you what you want so you figured it worked the first time...

    Just stop. Seriously... Just stop...

    Jeff
     
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  20. Debaser

    Debaser Member

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    Jeff, great advice. Just stop.
     
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