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MSDS for battery pack

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by ElectricLove, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Hi guys/gals,

    I will be shipping my Roadster from UK to USA and the shipping company is asking for an MSDS for the vessel to bring it across the pond...

    Anyone have access to this? I asked Tesla service center and as per the usual party line they can't help due to "liability reasons". I'm sort of shocked a company wouldn't allow a customer access to an MSDS but perhaps it is because I made the mistake of saying why I needed it...

    Any luck?
     
  2. jeremyz

    jeremyz Member

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    Isn't the only hazardous part of the battery pack the cells that it contains? Could you just use an MSDS for the Panasonic cells?
     
  3. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Tesla got full certification to ship their battery packs on ships (and airplanes). Odd that they won't provide the documentation...
     
  4. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    This is exactly what I'll end up doing... Thanks!

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    Have you met Tesla? It doesn't surprise me, although I think there is a consumer rights law somewhere that they are legally obligated to supply MSDS to their customers upon request... But, hey, its Tesla, they do what they want...
     
  5. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    LOL true...
     
  6. Auzie

    Auzie Tree Hugger Member

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    MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is required to be provided by a manufacturer for all products that contain hazardous chemicals that can endanger health due to exposure.

    According to Globally Harmonised System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals, Panasonic Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries are classed as an 'article' ie non-hazardous, hence there is no requirement for MSDS.

    Article.JPG

    Pana.JPG

    If Li-on batteries were classed as hazardous goods, then all laptops and mobile phone manufacturers would be subject to additional transportation costs and would be obliged to provide MSDS for their products. Packaging, handling and additional training are required when handling hazardous goods.

    The main question is whether batteries are hazardous, regardless of the current non-hazardous classification - the classification can change. Batteries are not hazardous if sealed and used as intended, however if they overheat, puncture or burn/explode then the fumes are toxic. Most fumes are toxic by the way, do not get alarmed

    Tesla's answer to you sounds to me like they did not know what to tell you. Tesla can not give you MSDS for a car if they most likely do not have one.

    It looks like someone is working on developing one...

    MSDS.JPG

    International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code
    classifies batteries as 'dangerous goods class 9' for transport.

    Shipment.JPG
     
  7. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Suggestion... Try another shipper.
     
  8. Chickenlittle

    Chickenlittle Active Member

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    wont take the time to read your prior posts but wasn't the buyer of this roadster very dissapointed with tesla over his last? Well if so wonder why he bought another
     
  9. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Certainly I'm not buying another because I have changed my mind about Tesla's service program, attitude towards 3rd parties or them "as a company"... My stance hasn't changed much and Tesla hasn't done anything to make me feel differently. However, I've never waivered on the actual VEHICLES being awesome. I'm an Electric Vehicle fanatic and understanding all the parts that go into the cars themselves I appreciate the Tesla vehicles for what they are... I still think the company is crap, and them telling me that they won't provide me with an MSDS on the product they sold is just one more example of that issue.

    I am going to try my best to work with Tesla and try to get their cooperation on allowing some 3rd party improvements to the Roadster, maybe someday Model S or even ??? I have very low expectations of them working with us (or anyone for that matter)...

    If we can get some additional tools, information, etc that will certainly mean we can provide better service/products/experience to the Roadster owners, we will see what happens...
     
  10. Auzie

    Auzie Tree Hugger Member

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    ElectricLove Tesla can not provide you with MSDS for two reasons:

    1. They obviously do not have one, check their website
    2. They do not have to have MSDS or to provide MSDS as their car is not classed as hazardous.

    There could be a third reason, but that one is my speculation: If anyone called me publicly 'crap' I'd make sure I had no business to do with that party. It is abusive.
     
  11. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Maybe crap is a strong choice of words, perhaps "leaves MUCH room for improvement" is better? Though I personally see them the same, I know if I'm providing "crap" service to a customer that I could do better and hearing it would make me want to service their needs better... Maybe I just operate differently though, as I don't get offended when someone doesn't just love my service/product, I instead take that as an opportunity to probe and find ways to improve...

    So, you think Tesla violates OSHA regulation at the factory where the battery packs are assembled (a Tesla factory) and simply "obviously do not have one" since their website hasn't been updated to include it? They are working with hazardous materials and they are welding on battery cases to assemble battery sheets, trust me, they have the MSDS... They also have them on site for every one of the other chemicals they are using at their factory, even the janitors windex...

    Not providing them is done b/c they honestly believe that by providing the information they are somehow accepting liability if something happens to the vehicles battery while in transit. My opinion, and I'd suspect the opinion of courts if it came down to it, would be that they are just as liable as any other manufacturer of battery packs for electric vehicles (thousands, maybe 10's of thousands of which are shipped annually overseas) and that providing the MSDS would not in any way effect their liability, when they chose which cells to use during the manufacturing process they accepted de facto liability.

    I am not "anti-Tesla", I love the cars and I love what the company could be, I do however see many things which need improvement on the company level and I don't have the confidence in them turning things around on those things. But perhaps that is simply the way of modern vehicles, the next generation, the generation of vehicles that have more in common with a laptop than an old dino-juice burner. The old generation of vehicles were sold and given tremendous support to 3rd parties for service, to enthusiasts for improving performance, to end-users to service their own vehicles, etc... The new generation is more like an absolute marriage to the seller for the life of the vehicle (marriage between the owner and Tesla), you may love the car but unless you also love the company, the lack of 3rd party support, the long lead-times at service stations and the high cost of repairs... you may be better looking elsewhere. Of course, right now, there really is no "elsewhere" in the EV world, perhaps with time and a mature market that will change and then Tesla will as well...

    One can only hope!
     
  12. Auzie

    Auzie Tree Hugger Member

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    ElectricLove, my impression is that you are misinterpreting the MSDS requirements and unnecessarily getting upset at Tesla over that misunderstanding.

    Back to your original problem, shipping the Roadster.

    My way of shipping a car would be to phone at least 3 car shippers/transporters and get some quotes for the job. Put it back on them to get the paperwork that they need to do the job. Let the shippers/transporters do what they do best, seek and handle all the required paperwork.

    Good luck
     
  13. Chickenlittle

    Chickenlittle Active Member

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    Weren't you going to buy a leaf? They increased the battery range to 110 next year on the high end version. I think it maybe time to fight with new companies
     
  14. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    I appreciate your advice, thank you!

    I do already have the shipping set up and have taken care of the MSDS issue, just not through the straight-forward channels it should be handled through ;-)

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    I already own a Leaf... I may buy another when the range is increased. There isn't much to "fight" Nissan on, at this point, early on they were having some range degradation issues (like some have on their roadsters) but they have been replacing those battery packs with brand new (and improved "lizard" packs) since it was identified. They are one of the few with a battery warranty to include a range/degradation warranty. In case you are curious, I also own the Volt and it has had no issues, it isn't as capable (and I prefer 100% electric) so I won't vouch for it too much but I will say they have had no issues with their drivetrain, batteries are kept in perfect health by a robust BMS and "usable capacity" restrictions... However, neither of these is a "sports-car" and that is what I prefer.
     

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