Musk had enough of the Falcon Wing Doors yet?

[vandacca]

Elon is stubborn and tenacious. He will get those doors working flawlessly with time. As it has already been mentioned numerous times, there is no going back on this design - a vehicle without the fwd is not a Model-X. The only way these doors will be considered a failure is if Tesla decides never to implement them again in any other high-end vehicle. That will take a long time to play out.

 

[TJunkers]

Putting my 8 month old son in his car seat made me realize how incredible the FWD are. I don't want to own another car without them.

 

[ecarfan]

I don't think Musk did this only for practical reasons. He did it to capture people's attention and imagination so that he could sell future models with no advertising.
Also, I think it's easy to say a v1 of something is a bad idea - if no one did ambitious things with v1's there are many amazing products we'd never have. Instead, Think about how great v2 or v3 of the auto presenting doors and FWD will be.

Well said. For V1 of a product design that no one has ever built before in the history of automotive engineering, they appear to work pretty well. Of course they will improve and work the bugs out, which are mostly software issues and to some extent sensor issues. The X FWDs have been in production for less than a year. A year from now no one will remember the problems, they will only marvel at how cool they are and how well they work and how useful they are.

I'm not buying an X, but I love the Falcon Wings.

 

[vjlvjl]

FWD are practical from a utility point of view.
They are cool and exciting to look at operationally.
They function pretty well most of the time, and will get better over time (OTA!).
If other car manufacturers could do them, they would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Sean So Lowe]

I've been driving a DeLorean for the past 17yrs and I find the Gullwing doors more practical and gain interance with easier access than the normal car door. Granted it is not mechanical as the model X FWD but in my opinion this stye of door is more effective.

 

[AnOutsider]

The doors certainly aren't all sunshine and rainbows, and they are a bit gaudy, but overall we like them. We definitely would have preferred normal doors (especially since the easy rear entry originally shown is essentially gone), but I'm not sure it would make sense for Tesla to scrap them.

 

[systemcrashed]

Front and rear entry are easier with FWDs. Especially in tight spaces. How is this not blatetenly obvious? The bulk of the door has been lifted over your head, even if it doesn't fully raise, in the case of an obstacle, it still clears more than a conventional door.

 

[Buddyroe]

Thanks everyone for posting so far. I had to make the OP a little sensational to get you guys to respond - I just needed to see if the people who are unhappy with them are the exception or the rule. It seems they are the exception. My natural feeling towards the doors was taking a negative tone because I kept stumbling on posts complaining about the doors or hoping the X would some day be offered with normal doors (more and more people are complaining about damaging their doors on overhead structures). But, just like a non-scientific poll can't really be used to make a determination, neither can random posts on the TMC forum. Those post could have easily been made by the same group of 1, 2, or 3 people.

For the person who asked, I don't own an X. I read every single thread here in the X forum to gauge how it's doing and people's feelings toward their X (basically, overall sentiment). I would say it's geared toward my investment strategy - but the truth is, I don't have enough money invested to warrant my hour or 2 a day browsing the TMC forums. It's actually just more of a love of Tesla and seeing how they're doing. I also spend WAY too much time arguing with morons that post on the WSJ articles about Tesla - in hopes of just a few people seeing the light!

 

[MSullivan]

They might remove them in a refresh in a few years but short of stopping production completely it isn't practical to remove them.

 

[rns-e]

I spent several days with an X and yes, the falcon wing doors are overdesigned and not all that necessary. They're sometimes finicky and don't open all the way because they think there's something in the way. They make access to the rear seats easier in tight parking but the front seats are still constrained by the limits of traditional doors — limits that don't matter for either front or back when you've got Summon to park the car after everybody gets out. They're utterly confusing to people who don't know how to operate them (even after a few days I was still getting tripped up).

But you know what? They're so damn cool. Pretty much every other time I opened those doors in a public place I was engaged in conversation about this insane car. They really do make getting into and out of the rear seats easier. And even though they serve the same function as a traditional column-hinged door or sliding mini-van style door, they just seem so much more awesome.

If he could go back in time and push the fancy falcon wing doors to version 2 of the Model X, would Elon do it? Possibly. The hyper-complicated doors were in part responsible for 18-month delay it took to get the Model X into production. But at the same time, they're a signature feature that makes the Model X more than just a taller Model S.

All of that isn't even mentioning that while it would be technically possible to replace the falcon wing doors with hinged doors, that's not remotely in the realm of possibility. It would be a herculean engineering task, encompassing the interior and exterior design, safety structure, electronics, safety testing, manufacturing, and external suppliers.

Yes, the doors are kinda stupid but also incredibly amazing and they aren't going anywhere.

Did you have a chance to test them in rainy windy conditions? Or even snow? I just wounder how practical they are in those conditions when your waiting for them to open and close while rain and snow is hammering in?

 

[vandacca]

Did you have a chance to test them in rainy windy conditions? Or even snow? I just wounder how practical they are in those conditions when your waiting for them to open and close while rain and snow is hammering in?

I'm thinking that in most cases, the rain/snow is coming from above and the fwd will actually shelter you from the elements. And it won't take much longer than a Honda Odyssey's sliding door, without the shelter.

 

[Derek Kessler]

Did you have a chance to test them in rainy windy conditions? Or even snow? I just wounder how practical they are in those conditions when your waiting for them to open and close while rain and snow is hammering in?

I did not — it was bright and sunny the entire time I had the X. While I would advise you to brush any accumulated snow off the roof before opening the doors, I can't see them being any less effective in inclement weather than motorized sliding minivan doors.

 

[ecarfan]

Thanks everyone for posting so far. I had to make the OP a little sensational to get you guys to respond

Hmmm...you really didn't need to do that.

 

[electricity]

Every other car maker will design SUV's with FWD's . I have no doubt about that.

 

[ecarfan]

Every other car maker will design SUV's with FWD's . I have no doubt about that.

I doubt that will happen any time soon, but I am confident that Tesla will not redesign the X to offer conventional second row doors (at least not for several years) and I think it quite possible that the Model Y will have Falcon Wings because by the time the Y design is finished Tesla will have solved all the issues related to the Falcon Wings, and driven down manufacturing costs to the point where they are only marginally more expensive to produce than conventional doors. It already amazes me that a base X 75D costs just $3.5K more than a base S 75D. That price delta includes the Falcon Wings, the huge front windshield, and a much bigger body.

 

[Epymian]

I love the FWD. They are so cool and I would not trade them for regular doors - ever. But if they made folding second row seats I would trade my current ones in a heartbeat.

 

[omarsultan]

Had out MX for 3 months now and our FWDs have never let us down--they have worked as advertised in all sorts of tight spaces.

Did you have a chance to test them in rainy windy conditions? Or even snow? I just wounder how practical they are in those conditions when your waiting for them to open and close while rain and snow is hammering in?

We took delivery during a torrential downpour--doors works great to keep folks dry and there was no water intrusion into the passenger area. Subsequent experiences on rainy days has been the same.

 

[Canuck]

I recall similar threads and issues with the retractable door handles, except perhaps it wasn't as big of an issue. Then again, maybe it was a bigger issue since not being able to let someone in your $100k+ car since the handles won't retract was well, let's just say: a little bit embarrassing. Tesla worked that out (it did take some time - one of my handles was redone and I believe all the earlier ones were replaced) and now the Model 3 is slated to have them (on a mass production vehicle) and I bet the problems with them will be few and far between -- and all those soon-to-be new Tesla owners are looking forward to them and will be loving them.

I don't have an X but from reading through threads here there clearly was (are) similar growing pains with the FWD. Sometimes it just takes time to work out the kinks, especially when you go 'out of the box' with things people took for granted as only being one way for decades.

It's ok to be wrong about something every now and then. It makes you appreciate the other 99% when you were right. No one is perfect.

After reading through this this thread from owners who love the FWD, I agree with this from the OP. I just didn't realize he was speaking to himself at the time I first read it.

 

[gavin.belson]

We absolutely love our FWDs. They perfectly accomplish what I imagine were the original design goals: ease of dealing with kids and car seats, and easy access to the third row. I was VERY nervous about them solely because I don't like attention, but I now enjoy them and am confident we'll see a lot more of them on the road soon.

No car is perfect for all types of people - just like there isn't a single smartphone that everyone can agree on. The X feels designed for families and small children, and the further you are away from that target, the less suitable it may be for you.

As an example: some complain about the slowness of the doors. For us, with small children, it's already a huge production getting in and out of the car and the doors add no extra time to that. In fact we prefer that the doors can't be manually operated so the kids won't slam them into other cars. Benefit for us, drawback for others. Design is all about tradeoffs.

Note that this all assumes that the doors are operating properly without bugs or manufacturing defects, which ours are (so far). That's a separate issue which I hope and expect to be resolved over time.

 

[X Yes?]

Most owners here are reporting they love the doors. I would bet the doors are the single largest reason most of the original 35K in orders have been delayed or canceled. Many are not convinced of the long term reliability, nor do purchasers want to be saddled with out of warranty costs.