Musk had enough of the Falcon Wing Doors yet?

[Atlantis]

Exactly @CarlK ! And after this Elon twit last year: "There will be a Model 3 and a Model Y. One of the two will," about falcon wing doors in future cars, I decided to start to save money for my future CUV, the Model Y as we know now that the Model 3 don't have FWD.
As for all in technology, early adaptors pay high to the development of new technology, then less wealthy people will get it some years after, with less issues because all the experience Tesla is gathering now thanks to all of you guys who are buying the awesome futurist Tesla X. Congrats for all of you and congrats to Tesla and Elon to innovate against all the odds!

 

[tinm]

Long before I bought an S, I wanted to get an X, having come from an Audi SUV. Test drove an S, was hooked.

Having now sat in and driven Xs, seen how they work, I think it unlikely I'd ever buy one. Too expensive, no folding second row seats, no easy roof rack solution, no headroom (for me at least) in 2nd row, and most of all the Falcon wing doors which have always seemed like total overkill imho. My next Tesla will be another S.

 

[proven]

So other than the people who could never let themselves dislike anything Tesla does, is everyone else pretty much convinced that the Falcon Wing Doors are a bust and it's time to cut the losses and move on? I have to wonder if the marketing folks (and all the VPs) at Tesla aren't telling Musk the same thing. It's fairly obvious at this point that most people simply don't like them.

With the dissatisfaction of consumers, along with the myriad issues with them, I hope Elon will eat his pride on this one. It's ok to be wrong about something every now and then. It makes you appreciate the other 99% when you were right. No one is perfect. The most important thing to remember is that "sunk cost" rule.

We've had ours since march and love the FWD's. They make it so much easier to get in and out of the second or third row for both adults and kids. Also, even though we've had a few minor problems with the car, none of them have involved the FWD's--they have worked great.

 

[Van De Ham]

We've had our X since April and the entire family loves the FWD. Getting the kids into their car seats used to strain our backs before, now it's way easier. I don't have to worry about the kids opening the door and hitting the car parked next to it either. This includes our other car that shares the garage. Also, being able to pull up to the curve, open the passenger side FWD from my driver's seat, and watching my son pop his seatbelt and exit, then closing the FWD from the driver's seat. The look on his friends (and friends' parents) faces and the fact that I don't have to drive a "mini-van"....Priceless.

 

[MiddKid]

Also, people who are spending 130k for this caliber of car isn't looking for practicality. They wants the wow factor, the hyper and attention. Falcon wing door definitely serve that purpose.

I get not getting an X because of the non-folding second row, only partially though now that I've seen a few X's in person. Not buying because of the FWDs? That one I'll never understand. I'm not saying your wrong or that there is anything bad about your opinion, I simply don't understand it. The FWDs, to me at least, one of THE signature reasons to buy an X...

Count me in as someone who cancelled their order due to the FaWDs and non-folding seats. This "isn't looking for practicality" argument is crazy. Three years ago when buying my S, I couldn't justify getting a sedan for my family of 5. You know what put me over the edge? Practicality and utility. With jump seats I could carry 7 people and the storage is incredible with the folding seats and frunk.

I continually shake my head that the X has less cargo utility than the S. We just traded in our family hauling SUV for an XC90. That car was originally supposed to be the X before I took a test drive and cancelled my order. Before people jump in with the "you can't compare a crossover with a SUV" argument, I disagree. Take a look at the attached pic of our new XC90 and I share two thoughts:
1. Without the FaWDs the X could easily carry this cargo and my family.
2. Even more shocking, with a tow hitch and roof mounts my three year old Model S could do this setup today!

So close to a dual Tesla garage. But the FaWDs blew it...

 

[fbitz777]

Count me in as someone who cancelled their order due to the FaWDs and non-folding seats. This "isn't looking for practicality" argument is crazy. Three years ago when buying my S, I couldn't justify getting a sedan for my family of 5. You know what put me over the edge? Practicality and utility. With jump seats I could carry 7 people and the storage is incredible with the folding seats and frunk.

I continually shake my head that the X has less cargo utility than the S. We just traded in our family hauling SUV for an XC90. That car was originally supposed to be the X before I took a test drive and cancelled my order. Before people jump in with the "you can't compare a crossover with a SUV" argument, I disagree. Take a look at the attached pic of our new XC90 and I share two thoughts:
1. Without the FaWDs the X could easily carry this cargo and my family.
2. Even more shocking, with a tow hitch and roof mounts my three year old Model S could do this setup today!

So close to a dual Tesla garage. But the FaWDs blew it...

View attachment 183225

I totally agree and although I will eventually get my 5-seater X I just took delivery of my 3rd MB GLS 450 because:
-I was tired of waiting for my X
-I do not believe the X is an SUV and I need to carry stuff very often and have folding seats.

Based on how long they make me wait of the 5 seater X I might switch to the S as it obviously carries more cargo.

I am still praying the 5 seater X will have folding seats (or I keep delaying delivery until they decide to offer that)

 

[BornToFly]

We love the FWDs. If you could take a magic wand and make them disappear, my wife would kill you.

 

[ggnykk]

Count me in as someone who cancelled their order due to the FaWDs and non-folding seats. This "isn't looking for practicality" argument is crazy. Three years ago when buying my S, I couldn't justify getting a sedan for my family of 5. You know what put me over the edge? Practicality and utility. With jump seats I could carry 7 people and the storage is incredible with the folding seats and frunk.

I continually shake my head that the X has less cargo utility than the S. We just traded in our family hauling SUV for an XC90. That car was originally supposed to be the X before I took a test drive and cancelled my order. Before people jump in with the "you can't compare a crossover with a SUV" argument, I disagree. Take a look at the attached pic of our new XC90 and I share two thoughts:
1. Without the FaWDs the X could easily carry this cargo and my family.
2. Even more shocking, with a tow hitch and roof mounts my three year old Model S could do this setup today!

So close to a dual Tesla garage. But the FaWDs blew it...

View attachment 183225

How is the new Volvo serving you? (this is a serious question). I heard there are a lot of issues in couple of Volvo forums.

 

[RobertSeattle]

OT, but 10 year olds keeping asking me "Why aren't the front door falcon wing doors too?"

 

[aesculus]

OT, but 10 year olds keeping asking me "Why aren't the front door falcon wing doors too?"

Tell them the Model X is a bird and is not an insect. Only one set of wings.

 

[BornToFly]

View attachment 183225

Man is that hideous. I can see why the Model X doesn't work for you, but 99.9% of people don't put a giant, mpg killing box on their roof (the idiots that leave it on everyday, loosing 20% or more on their range, really crack me up). To have not created the FWD on the X for a TINY fraction of the population would have been a mistake. It just sucks for you. I wouldn't drive that Volvo if Volvo paid me to do it. I just can't stand anything with a transmission and an ICE anymore.

 

[proven]

Count me in as someone who cancelled their order due to the FaWDs and non-folding seats. This "isn't looking for practicality" argument is crazy. Three years ago when buying my S, I couldn't justify getting a sedan for my family of 5. You know what put me over the edge? Practicality and utility. With jump seats I could carry 7 people and the storage is incredible with the folding seats and frunk.

I continually shake my head that the X has less cargo utility than the S. We just traded in our family hauling SUV for an XC90. That car was originally supposed to be the X before I took a test drive and cancelled my order. Before people jump in with the "you can't compare a crossover with a SUV" argument, I disagree. Take a look at the attached pic of our new XC90 and I share two thoughts:
1. Without the FaWDs the X could easily carry this cargo and my family.
2. Even more shocking, with a tow hitch and roof mounts my three year old Model S could do this setup today!

So close to a dual Tesla garage. But the FaWDs blew it...

View attachment 183225

The part I understand is the cargo capacity on the X doesn't suit your needs. The lack of folding second row seats limits the storage space by about 2 feet if you compare it to the second row seats moved all the way forward. That can make the difference between fitting something big in the car and not.

Comparing the cargo capacity to the model S, it has similar space with one person in the car, but the S can carry a larger single object than the X. However, with four people in the car I find that the X has more space. That's why I find direct cargo capacity comparisons tricky.

The part that I don't understand is why someone would cancel their order because it has falcon wing doors. The prototype had falcon wing doors. It seemed pretty clear that it would always have falcon wing doors. Were you secretly waiting for them to announce they scrapped those plans? The ability to carry a roof rack hasn't changed since 2012. The falcon wing doors seem like a good reason not to place an order in the first place if you needed that roof space.

 

[Atlantis]

Yes rare but not impossible (fond in the EU deliveries thread and posted by felixtb member from Lausanne, CH):

 

[Joer293]

Now that my model S p85 is totaled, the FWD is the reason I'll be replacing it with an X instead of a S. I just want to say thanks for cancelling your X order, so I can get my vehicle sooner.

 

[MiddKid]

Man is that hideous. I can see why the Model X doesn't work for you, but 99.9% of people don't put a giant, mpg killing box on their roof (the idiots that leave it on everyday, loosing 20% or more on their range, really crack me up). To have not created the FWD on the X for a TINY fraction of the population would have been a mistake. It just sucks for you. I wouldn't drive that Volvo if Volvo paid me to do it. I just can't stand anything with a transmission and an ICE anymore.

I find it funny that people get so blinded by what works for them that they passionately attack others. "Hideous"...funny. The thread was people responding that liked and didn't like them. I was simply responding with why it doesn't work for US. I didn't jump in and attack everyone who has bought an X. I was just giving an example of someone it doesn't work for. If people in my situation were really 99.9% of SUV owners then Thule and Yakima certainly wouldn't be in business. And Elon probably wouldn't have gone out of his way to demonstrate that the X can use a hitch rack during the unveil. Also, at the unveil Elon showed an X with an Airstream attached...I'm going to venture a guess that people towing Airstreams is a significantly smaller portion of the population than owns cargo boxes. Yet Telsa went out of their way to demonstrate it. Should they not have added towing capacity for the "TINY fraction of the population" that uses it?

As someone who lives in SLC, I'd think you'd notice the large number of people with roof boxes...especially during ski season. They serve a purpose. Speaking of skiing, I can't stand hitch mount ski racks. They destroy your skis with road grime and are a pain to load vertically. I was thinking maybe I could carry skis inside (not ideal) but then forcing me into a 6-seater to do so was unacceptable. Roof boxes are, quite frankly, the best way to transport and protect your gear.

BTW, I totally agree with you that I can't stand anything with a transmission or ICE (that's why I have 36K miles on my MS). I potentially would have been able to go ICE-free if it weren't for the FaWDs. I have a family of five who spends most weekends either biking or skiing (next weekend we're going to Whistler and bringing BOTH our bikes and skis!)...the fact that I was even considering adding an X to my garage to compliment my S should tell you I was trying to figure out any way possible to go ICE-free. But ultimately I couldn't do it.

Side note...never been a Volvo owner before. Saw the XC90 win virtually every SUV of the year award out there. We really love it. I have to admit the interior quality blows away my Model S and the Model X we test drove. The Sensus infotainment system pales compared to Tesla's but the fit/finish and mechanical quality is fantastic. A particularly entertaining read is this writer who once declared that "all SUVs are stupid" but the XC90 changed his mind.
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/the-2016-volvo-xc90-is-the-suv-that-will-make-you-love-1778973086

Lastly I saw in one of your other posts that you owned a Chevy Suburban. Love the irony of you calling our solution out as "hideous" and "mpg killing." Nice.

The part I understand is the cargo capacity on the X doesn't suit your needs. The lack of folding second row seats limits the storage space by about 2 feet if you compare it to the second row seats moved all the way forward. That can make the difference between fitting something big in the car and not.

Comparing the cargo capacity to the model S, it has similar space with one person in the car, but the S can carry a larger single object than the X. However, with four people in the car I find that the X has more space. That's why I find direct cargo capacity comparisons tricky.

The part that I don't understand is why someone would cancel their order because it has falcon wing doors. The prototype had falcon wing doors. It seemed pretty clear that it would always have falcon wing doors. Were you secretly waiting for them to announce they scrapped those plans? The ability to carry a roof rack hasn't changed since 2012. The falcon wing doors seem like a good reason not to place an order in the first place if you needed that roof space.

Thanks for not calling my car "hideous" ;-) I agree it's difficult to compare but I've got two real-world examples that have happened in the last 6 months. I've carried multiple pairs of skis in my Model S which is virtually impossible without getting the 6-seater. The more recent example is I was left home with one of my daughters and my wife had the SUV. My daughter wanted to go mountain biking. I got both my bike and her bike in the back of the Model S (no hitch) AND she sat in the still available seat in the second row. This would be impossible with any X configuration. Now that's utility!

We ordered it for a few reasons. As I noted above, we were willing to really think out of the box to try and make it work. Early on Elon showed not only folding seats but also tweeted that Tesla had a "solution" for roof racks. When we actually tried the seats, we were really disappointed. Then the roof solution landed up being another unfulfilled promise. We then cancelled.

Yes rare but not impossible (fond in the EU deliveries thread and posted by felixtb member from Lausanne, CH):

That's a great pic! And I considered the suction route. Just wasn't loving the hassle of it and losing the utility of a door (maybe both doors in this case) while using it!

Now that my model S p85 is totaled, the FWD is the reason I'll be replacing it with an X instead of a S. I just want to say thanks for cancelling your X order, so I can get my vehicle sooner.

You're welcome!

 

[DJ Frustration]

Data point time folks. My friend and I have Sig X's in the 800's for VINs. His FWDs are lemon law worthy in their inability to close without "obstacle detected". Lemon law worthy. Marinate on that. For a car he paid $132k for. Unacceptable. FWDs are the problem. Not the solution.

Normal doors worked just fine for decades. What problem do FWDs REALLY solve? Not one I can see after nearly four months of ownership. They just add headaches, anxiety and bring back the D-bag factor that we seemingly gave up by buying a "green" vehicle.

And on our Sig X, my kids, their friends, me and my wife have almost been crushed by the FWDs on 4 separate occasions. Oh but the FWDs are so sensitive you might say. Tell that to my head that's been hit on a FWD. And try getting out of the front row door at the same time that a FWD is closing. You can't...without hitting a closing wing.

Do I have to duck to get into and out of any other 2nd row door on any other SUV? Not really. How is this practical?

Simply put, FWDs were an EM obsession that should have been course corrected as an optional feature before they made it into production. The amount of resources devoted to FWD took Tesla's eye off the ball on their true mission, which is to foster the widespread adoption of sustainable mass transport. If it weren't for the Model S' wild success, these doors may have resulted in the death of the company.

Search my posting history if you think I'm not a diehard Tesla supporter. The reality is, the FWD are a liability and a solution to a non-existent problem. If this community could take off our Tesla blinders we may be able to give fair criticism without fear of "hurting Tesla." Healthy criticism strengthens a product. And finally, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to share their own experience. Mine is but one more data point on this topic. You won't see me denigrate others who love the FWDs or love their Volvo, Suburban, or other vehicle.

 

[R.S]

Data point time folks. My friend and I have Sig X's in the 800's for VINs. His FWDs are lemon law worthy in their inability to close without "obstacle detected". Lemon law worthy. Marinate on that. For a car he paid $132k for. Unacceptable. FWDs are the problem. Not the solution.

Normal doors worked just fine for decades. What problem do FWDs REALLY solve? Not one I can see after nearly four months of ownership. They just add headaches, anxiety and bring back the D-bag factor that we seemingly gave up by buying a "green" vehicle.

And on our Sig X, my kids, their friends, me and my wife have almost been crushed by the FWDs on 4 separate occasions. Oh but the FWDs are so sensitive you might say. Tell that to my head that's been hit on a FWD. And try getting out of the front row door at the same time that a FWD is closing. You can't...without hitting a closing wing.

Do I have to duck to get into and out of any other 2nd row door on any other SUV? Not really. How is this practical?

Simply put, FWDs were an EM obsession that should have been course corrected as an optional feature before they made it into production. The amount of resources devoted to FWD took Tesla's eye off the ball on their true mission, which is to foster the widespread adoption of sustainable mass transport. If it weren't for the Model S' wild success, these doors may have resulted in the death of the company.

Search my posting history if you think I'm not a diehard Tesla supporter. The reality is, the FWD are a liability and a solution to a non-existent problem. If this community could take off our Tesla blinders we may be able to give fair criticism without fear of "hurting Tesla." Healthy criticism strengthens a product. And finally, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to share their own experience. Mine is but one more data point on this topic. You won't see me denigrate others who love the FWDs or love their Volvo, Suburban, or other vehicle.

Not to take a side in the discussion, but one thing is for sure. The X is worse than the S, not from a technical, or practicality perspective, but for Tesla. I do hope they will keep their complex designs to the SUVs, because if something like that happens with the 3, we might have to look for someone else to buy our future cars from...

 

[RKap]

As someone who lives in SLC, I'd think you'd notice the large number of people with roof boxes...especially during ski season. They serve a purpose. Speaking of skiing, I can't stand hitch mount ski racks. They destroy your skis with road grime and are a pain to load vertically. I was thinking maybe I could carry skis inside (not ideal) but then forcing me into a 6-seater to do so was unacceptable. Roof boxes are, quite frankly, the best way to transport and protect your gear.

I've been reading this since we cross-shopped with the Volvo XC90 T8 (14 mile electric range is ridiculous but enough for around town), but ordered the X since the Volvo had much smaller interior cargo room. It sounds like you did what worked for your family's needs, but for us, not being able to fit a double stroller in the Volvo trunk with the 3rd row seats up ruled it out. It fit in the X trunk with room to spare, plus there's the frunk. We opted for the towing package mostly for future rear hitch cargo box options in the future. I also didn't like the Volvo interior compared to the X and found the drive pretty jerky (and I have a Prius). Just making some counter points to balance the cargo discussion, but our babies aren't skiing or biking yet.

Normal doors worked just fine for decades. What problem do FWDs REALLY solve? Not one I can see after nearly four months of ownership. They just add headaches, anxiety and bring back the D-bag factor that we seemingly gave up by buying a "green" vehicle.

The FWD problems you and your friend have are truly unbelievable. I don't have my X yet but my main hang up before I ordered was worrying about the doors. I think they look silly, I don't want attention every time I open them, but as a mom of two babies, they will be incredibly useful in more easily loading babies in car seats, and allowing easier access to the 3rd row. I looked at other 3rd row SUVs and getting in/out of the 3rd row is just a total pain in the butt. We rented one in LA recently and the only way I could sit between the car seats in the 2nd row was by climbing over the passenger seat while it was partially folded down.

We can't get a minivan into our garage with a short, steep driveway. So my biggest fear about the X is also one of the things I'm looking forward to the most - assuming they work. It still scares me that recently delivered X's are still having some door problems. But I see a lot of reasons the FWD could be better than regular doors.

 

[KJD]

I would say any SUV at this price level must have FWD's in a few years. Koreans will start to put them in even lower priced SUV's. They don't have a choice. It's just a so much superior design. You got to have it to appreciate it. Elon will make it to work perfectly. He did not stop trying to send a rocket to outer space AND to land one on the ocean becuase these are hard to do.

OK fine. Now give me an SUV with 2nd seats that fold flat, and take those "work of art" things and throw them in the can.
That should be easy right?

 

[Atlantis]

Data point time folks. My friend and I have Sig X's in the 800's for VINs. His FWDs are lemon law worthy in their inability to close without "obstacle detected". Lemon law worthy. Marinate on that. For a car he paid $132k for. Unacceptable. FWDs are the problem. Not the solution.

Normal doors worked just fine for decades. What problem do FWDs REALLY solve? Not one I can see after nearly four months of ownership. They just add headaches, anxiety and bring back the D-bag factor that we seemingly gave up by buying a "green" vehicle.

And on our Sig X, my kids, their friends, me and my wife have almost been crushed by the FWDs on 4 separate occasions. Oh but the FWDs are so sensitive you might say. Tell that to my head that's been hit on a FWD. And try getting out of the front row door at the same time that a FWD is closing. You can't...without hitting a closing wing.

Do I have to duck to get into and out of any other 2nd row door on any other SUV? Not really. How is this practical?

Simply put, FWDs were an EM obsession that should have been course corrected as an optional feature before they made it into production. The amount of resources devoted to FWD took Tesla's eye off the ball on their true mission, which is to foster the widespread adoption of sustainable mass transport. If it weren't for the Model S' wild success, these doors may have resulted in the death of the company.

Search my posting history if you think I'm not a diehard Tesla supporter. The reality is, the FWD are a liability and a solution to a non-existent problem. If this community could take off our Tesla blinders we may be able to give fair criticism without fear of "hurting Tesla." Healthy criticism strengthens a product. And finally, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to share their own experience. Mine is but one more data point on this topic. You won't see me denigrate others who love the FWDs or love their Volvo, Suburban, or other vehicle.

You explain perfectly your bad experience (feel sorry for you) so I understand your are disappointed by the decision of making the X with these doors. This said, my needs are not the same. So I really hope to see these doors in my next Tesla Y. Reliability? Your are the first ones so problems were awaited. But should GM gave up of the Hydra-Matic transmission because the problems that stuck in the middle of the road so many first Cadillac owners when manual transmissions worked perfectly for decades?
FWD, away of the hype/futurist factor, is more convenient for children and old people (I 'm surprise that so few have mentioned that). My grand mother and my mum have serious problem to enter and go out of cars for example.
Sure, the second row would be better if it folds, but maybe Tesla will make it in the next version, and maybe Tesla will be able to make an X with normal doors (but as it will be necessary to change all the structure of the car I don't see it happened in a foreseeable future). As always, first adopters have to live with growing pain of new technology.
But, most importantly, nothing in this world (and no one to) have to please to every one. Lot of people cancelled their orders because FWDs but lot of people will buy an X because of these doors, not because is an electric car or a Tesla. This is how things are.
With time, others car manufacturers will adopt these doors, but a lot of cars will remains with normal doors, so every body will be satisfied.