Maybe the mods can add a wiki to the front of the thread, and we can collect observations/data there. At least that would provide localized high S/N, even if the rest of the thread degrades...
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My car won't charge faster than 60kW
- Thread starter David99
- Start date
Even if throttling locals turns out to actually be true and permanent, what promise are they breaking?
Can you show me the part in your MVPA or other contract that says that Supercharging has a minimum power delivery? Take a look at the 90 kW "A" pack thread for more conjecture on that particular subject. 60 kW is still supercharging. Slower? Yes. But "changing the contract retroactively"? No. "Free"? Yes, still free. "Supercharging"? Yes, you're still getting a rate faster than anything else out there. "For life"? I don't see any limits yet.
And, of course - and I'll say it every time I post on this thread until the data points to something differently - the data collected still doesn't prove nor disprove any particular theory about why certain cars are being limited at certain superchargers, including a theory about local supercharging. We have frequent SC'ers not being limited, and non-frequent SC'ers limited; we have people 2 miles from their SC who are unlimited, and people 60 miles from theirs who are limited. Conjecture is fitting an emotional narrative rather than a rational approach to the data - a lot of heat rather than light.
Just adding a data point, I was charging last night at the East Greenwich, RI supercharger with 108 miles left and it would only go up to 60 kW. I was the only car there out of 8 stalls and tried two different pairings with the same results. Model S85, November 2014 build and my home is located about 40 miles away from this charger. I am not a frequent user as I think I've only used superchargers maybe 5 times max since taking delivery and regardless of whether or not it's legal for them to do this, it is a dick move to advertise a full charge in 45 mins (half charge in 20) and then throttle it later on. There are too many over zealous fanboys that will excuse anything Tesla does even if you wouldn't accept this kind of behavior from other companies. We were all told before buying the car how long it would take to supercharge and if they had added "but we reserve the right to throttle in the future", it would definitely have affected my decision to purchase. This is an issue of goodwill and nothing else.
Many promises on this page
Supercharger | Tesla Motors
"You simply plug in, walk away and in approximately 30 minutes you have enough range to get to your destination or the next station"
If you arrive with empy pack and max charge rate is 60kW, I think this is not true.
That page also doesn't say, that Tesla may limit your charge rate based on some decision.
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That doesn't hold water. There are plenty of real world (meaning: not corner case) situations where a 'standard' charge rate for 30 min won't get you to the next station. Also, note the CYA of "approximately 30" in the text you quoted from that page...
What other promises do you think they are making and breaking?
Don't get me wrong, I think its a shifty move to throttle locals without telling them (if that's actually what's happening), but I also trust that Tesla is smarter than me. I'm confident that whatever they may implement will improve fleet satisfaction, even if its at the expense of a few disgruntled locals that have to spend another 5-10 minutes charging. And so my position here is clear, I'm affected--I local supercharge probably once every 10-12 days or so.
Yeah, I wonder if that has something to do with it. You didn't need the charge. I too was heading home 2 weeks ago, 110 miles to go, 150 miles in the battery and was limited to 60 kW as well. The car knew where I was going since I had home set in the nav.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I wonder if this may be a temporary side effect or in some way related to the upcoming announcement? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/44362-Elon-About-to-end-range-anxiety
Crap, that thread, which started this morning, is now 13 pages long already.
But yeah, I strongly suspect that Tesla has been beta testing, or A-B testing, or whatever a new system whereby, if you have a destination in your nav, it'll more accurately estimate energy usage and direct you to chargers along your route IF YOU NEED THEM. If you don't need them, it won't suggest Superchargers, and indeed, will limit charging speed if you do stop at a Supercharger. This will be spun in a way to ensure that people that really need the charge will have access to the full charge.
But yeah, I strongly suspect that Tesla has been beta testing, or A-B testing, or whatever a new system whereby, if you have a destination in your nav, it'll more accurately estimate energy usage and direct you to chargers along your route IF YOU NEED THEM. If you don't need them, it won't suggest Superchargers, and indeed, will limit charging speed if you do stop at a Supercharger. This will be spun in a way to ensure that people that really need the charge will have access to the full charge.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I was also struck by that coincidence.
But as much as I try, I can't see how this helps. Even if they slow down locals charging (and we have no proof that that's what they are doing), how would that help? Especially since they seem to do this even when the person is the only one charging at an otherwise empty supercharger.
Based on our experience with Tesla so far, I think we are missing a piece of the puzzle. They have a history of making changes that negatively impact owners without communicating why. See the temporary end to lowering smart air cars at speed. See the removal of the ability to roll down the windows from the keyfob. See the 90kW limitation for A batteries.
I haven't read every single of the 212 posts in this thread... I'm wondering if there is something else that is common among these cars... has anyone who had the charge limit received the contactor replacement? Do these cars have a similar range of battery serial numbers? Is it possible that Tesla found an issue with some part and wants to limit people until they can be replaced?
Just throwing out ideas. Mainly because I don't want to believe that they would slow you down when you are too close to home...
How many times have we heard something from J. Random Tesla-Employee and it's turned out to be some filler material for conversation rather than the truth?
Well, given Elon's announcement coming on Thursday, perhaps there is a tie-in with the 60 kW policy of discouraging local use. So in that respect, the service center would have been correct and this announcement could be a good thing overall for the supercharging experience. By the time Thursday rolls around, we will be speculating that Tesla will be beaming power to each car via satellite... lol
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Tesla may simply be experimenting with different charge throttling and unintentionally limited some cars to 60kW temporarily. I can't see any rational reason to do it permanently, and since I don't think Tesla is irrational, I'm rejecting that possibility.
Not doubting you at all, I've heard crazy things come out of my local service center that weren't really the case. I suspect the reality is somewhere in the middle. Yes, there is probably going to be some policy put in place regarding the 60 kW charging, but it will be done with an eye towards helping long distance travelers reduce their wait time. The mention by your service center that a policy statement was forthcoming would point to Elon's press conference this coming Thursday. The two have to be related, but the policy won't be what we expect. Tesla wants to reduce, not increase, our travel time.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I like the way you think! Yes, that is a good explanation that combines both of the threads.
It's not perfect (as faster supercharging doesn't "end range anxiety"), but maybe the faster supercharging is simply part of a multi aspect solution.
That sounds like a typical decision from someone who doesn't put much value on traditional marketing and advertising. Musk admitted that in China they have a name recognition problem. The easiest way to change that is with an advertising blitz. However, that doesn't seem to be anywhere in Tesla's plan for China, and I think that's a mistake.
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I charged at 93 kW with a 42% SOC yesterday, less than 5 miles from my home at the Buckeye supercharger. I rarely use Superchargers, so perhaps they are throttling those who live within a certain radius and who also use the Superchargers within that radius beyond a certain threshold?
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I think that Tesla has a right to manage its network, doesn't it? If it sees usage that it defines as "abuse", it can throttle those users. That's not unlike your cell phone provider throttling your bandwidth on an "unlimited" data plan if you exceed a certain amount of GB.
I have asked four of our club members who live near Superchargers to provide their findings to me on this subject.
Here is the first response from a club member that lives 4 miles from the Port Saint Lucie Superchargers.
He is on v6.1(2.2.115) of the firmware.
He drove a little over 40 miles before charging in 80 degree weather on Charger 2A in Port Saint Lucie.
The charge rate quickly went to 111 kW then leveled off around 105-109kW for the first 5-10 minutes.
This is the first time he has used the Supercharger in about a month.
Larry
Here is the first response from a club member that lives 4 miles from the Port Saint Lucie Superchargers.
He is on v6.1(2.2.115) of the firmware.
He drove a little over 40 miles before charging in 80 degree weather on Charger 2A in Port Saint Lucie.
The charge rate quickly went to 111 kW then leveled off around 105-109kW for the first 5-10 minutes.
This is the first time he has used the Supercharger in about a month.
Larry
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