Is that the one where a prank involving dropping your pants goes horribly wrong?
No? Okay, just me then.
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Is that the one where a prank involving dropping your pants goes horribly wrong?
No? Okay, just me then.
I think the original posting is meaningless regarding AP. Regardless of if the AP was engaged or if someone was driving a Honda Pilot, at night you would never see the objects in the road and you would hit them regardless of the vehicle. Has nothing to do with AP. Thank GOd it wasn't a motorcycle.
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
I have had my Model X since January and occasionally use the autopilot function. But I have enough sense to know it has its limitations and I am always prepared to take control if necessary. The Tesla DS told me very little about the autopilot but I learned the first time I used it that it has its limitations. It is definately not something you want to use on an undivided highway, narrow roads, or roads with traffic lights. I live on an island and the main road going through the island is only 10 feet wide and has no shoulders. If I used AP on this road I would end up in the river. If I ended up in the river it wouldn't be Tesla's fault.
On the other hand it works much better on limited access decided freeways/highways but even on these roads you need to be aware of your surrounding at all times. It will not detect debris in the road, therefore it is easy to blowout a tire.
I am concerned there are idiots who will use AP and not pay attention to the road and when they kill someone they will blame it on the AP and Tesla. This will cause Tesla to have to disable the functions. For now the current version of the AP is no more than a sophisticated cruise control.
Back to the original post from everything that had been presented the driver was at fault. He was using AP on a non-divided road, was exceeding the speed limit and most importantly not paying attention to driving. It appears he does not speak or read English. If he is driving on American streets he should be able to communicate enough to know and understanding driving US rules and regulations and if he is unfamiliar with the car it should be his responsibility to have the instructions translated. The burden shouldn't be on Tesla. The whole posting seamed odd.
I know there was another incident involving a Chinese speaking man. The man had indicated to the media thru an interpreter that after having an accident involving AP he had tried to contact Tesla but they had not returned his call. When in actuality Tesla had one of their mandarin speaking employees try to reach out everyday for a week and had even spoken to the man's wife. Since they couldn't get thru to the driver and since the man was using the news to plead his case Tesla decided their only option was to report their findings through the media. The man had not taken hold of the wheel for over 5 minutes even though he was warned that the car could not determine the lanes several times. He was was also speeding and was in a construction zone.
These false reports will only cause those who use AP responsibly to lose this capability.
On the other hand it works much better on limited access decided freeways/highways but even on these roads you need to be aware of your surrounding at all times. It will not detect debris in the road, therefore it is easy to blowout a tire.
I am concerned there are idiots who will use AP and not pay attention to the road and when they kill someone they will blame it on the AP and Tesla. This will cause Tesla to have to disable the functions. For now the current version of the AP is no more than a sophisticated cruise control.
Back to the original post from everything that had been presented the driver was at fault. He was using AP on a non-divided road, was exceeding the speed limit and most importantly not paying attention to driving. It appears he does not speak or read English. If he is driving on American streets he should be able to communicate enough to know and understanding driving US rules and regulations and if he is unfamiliar with the car it should be his responsibility to have the instructions translated. The burden shouldn't be on Tesla. The whole posting seamed odd.
I know there was another incident involving a Chinese speaking man. The man had indicated to the media thru an interpreter that after having an accident involving AP he had tried to contact Tesla but they had not returned his call. When in actuality Tesla had one of their mandarin speaking employees try to reach out everyday for a week and had even spoken to the man's wife. Since they couldn't get thru to the driver and since the man was using the news to plead his case Tesla decided their only option was to report their findings through the media. The man had not taken hold of the wheel for over 5 minutes even though he was warned that the car could not determine the lanes several times. He was was also speeding and was in a construction zone.
These false reports will only cause those who use AP responsibly to lose this capability.
jsollender
Member
2 weeks of owning my 90D and I clearly see there are limitations for AP even on highways with poor lane markings, construction zones, and other visual "challenges" for the system. My hands are always lightly on the wheel using AP for those rare moments when the car acts funky. I have no seen any gas/brake issues, only steering issues. I think the product is great, but has its limits. Knowing those limits will save your life. Not knowing its limits can kill you if you think it is anything but a 'beta' product.
BluestarE3
Active Member
Not sure where you're going with this, but it sounds potentially painful! Reminds me of an exhibit I saw at the Mayo Clinic museum years ago depicting the aftermath of a farm accident involving a fall from an elevated position and a pitchfork handle. Moon on a stick? Ouch!
Tam
Well-Known Member
A co-pilot is certified to fly an airplane and perform all the flying tasks that a pilot can.
When a pilot takes a break, a co-pilot can take over the flying tasks completely until the pilot comes back.
On the other hand, an Autopilot requires at least on qualified operator at the helm at all time.
Again, an Autopilot is not allowed to fly without a pilot or co-pilot at the helm at all time.
The difference between pilot and co-pilot is the rank and pay, not ability to fly an airplane.
The skill and judgement difference between a co-pilot and autopilot is huge.
to the layperson, "co-pilot" suggests that the co-pilot is just there to assist you, and you remain in control and you never completely just abdicate responsibility to the co-pilot (because then they are the pilot -- not just co-pilot).
to the layperson, (and to actual pilots -- see my earlier posts) "autopilot" suggests that you can turn it on and read a book or watch a dvd while it stays the course/lane.
Probably Tesla would be better off not using either phrase.
to the layperson, (and to actual pilots -- see my earlier posts) "autopilot" suggests that you can turn it on and read a book or watch a dvd while it stays the course/lane.
Probably Tesla would be better off not using either phrase.
Tam
Well-Known Member
The term "Auto-Pilot" has been discussed in Popular Science, April 1958 so this is not a new terminology that lay person may misunderstand the feature as driverless autonomous vehicles for the past 58 years.
Are you suggesting that present day 2016 drivers are not as bright as 1958 Imperial and Chrysler drivers?
If present day drivers have a knowledge deficit issue, then let's get them back to the basic of reading owner's manual first.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Federal Aviation Administration has strengthen the rules even when you use Autopilot while flying.
It already banned personal talks and other distractions betwen flight crews since 30 years ago which is called "sterile cockpit." One example of violation was highlighted during the Autopilot session for the fatal crash of Colgan Flight 3407 (2009).
The new FAA rules go one step stricter by "barring airline pilots from using laptops, cellphones or other electronic devices for personal reasons while on duty in the cockpit."
Yes. That was in fact the whole purpose of my post. I'm happy that you were able to deduce that.
@Joeski1 Time to get in line for the lawsuit.
Tesla Says Driver Took Hands Off Wheel in Latest Autopilot Crash
"“This is certainly related to some false promotion and marketing,” he tells Reuters. “They described [this function] very well to everyone, but in fact they took an unfinished product and used it as a promotional gimmick.”
Here is Uncle Lebeau, showing off hands free auto pilot, calling it self driving.
Tesla's Autopilot in action
Tesla Says Driver Took Hands Off Wheel in Latest Autopilot Crash
"“This is certainly related to some false promotion and marketing,” he tells Reuters. “They described [this function] very well to everyone, but in fact they took an unfinished product and used it as a promotional gimmick.”
Here is Uncle Lebeau, showing off hands free auto pilot, calling it self driving.
Tesla's Autopilot in action
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The driver also said he wasn't paying attention and was looking at his phone or satnav. Maybe he expect the car to drive him to his destination, park up, open the door and lift him out onto the sidewalk as well?
I'm sure the lawyers are all rubbing their hands with glee and maybe a few of them will get some money from these claims. Time will tell.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Then it is time to stop encouraging the growth of ignorance and nudge them toward the path of knowledge fullfillment.
I appreciate the basic thought of your post, but a few minor corrections are in order:
1. A Co-pilot, or more correctly, a First Officer, is not qualified to do all the things a Captain can do. In most countries, when the visibility is less than When visibility to land is sufficiently restricted, only the Captain is allowed to make the approach.
2. The difference between the F/O and the Capt most often speaks to experience, and with experience skills tend to improve. (Though I have seen crews where the F/O had better flying skills than the Capt.)
3. Sometimes the autopilot does outfly a human pilot. For instance, when visibility is extremely limited, the Captain must conduct the approach, but he must do so using the autopilot. Basically, to land it manually, he has to see the landing area before touchdown. But the autopilot in today's high tech airplanes is certified to land even when the crew cannot see the runway. In these low visibility conditions, the first time we see the runway from the cockpit is when the autopilot lowers the nose gear to the runway after touchdown. And we are not allowed to make those approaches unless we are doing an autoland.
Here is a good 38 second video of a Boeing aircraft making such a landing. The altitudes you hear are the the feet above touchdown. At about 25 seconds you hear the touchdown, and then hear the F/O announcing that the speedbrakes have deployed. The nose is coming down now and you can finally see the runway. Again, this extreme low vis approach is ONLY legal if using the autopilot. But even during these approaches, the Capt is required to keep his hands on the controls and be prepared to perform a go-around at any moment. Because even with the world's most sophisticated autopilots, things can go wrong.
Another major point is that in these low visibility approaches, we are flying in an extremely controlled environment. Basically, all we have to worry about is keeping the airplane where it belongs. We don't have to worry about other people cutting into our lane, abandoned airplanes on the side of the runway, airplanes only feet away from us being hand flown by someone texting or playing PManGo, etc.
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