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if Troy's numbers are correct for Q2 something is affecting Q2 S/X production and in this case I don't think it is 2170 cell supply. I've considered whether it might be the Semi ramp but that is not sufficient.
2170 cell supply certainly is not a constraint for the S&X production, as they don't use 2170s. They use 18650s, and they are the only Tesla products that are currently using them. (As far as I know all 18650s still come from Panasonic in Japan.)
 
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2170 cell supply certainly is not a constraint for the S&X production, as they don't use 2170s. They use 18650s, and they are the only Tesla products that are currently using them. (As far as I know all 18650s still come from Panasonic in Japan.)
Thank you ..... my memory gets hazy on this stuff. Have you any insight on what is happening on S/X ?

By the way is it 2170 from LG that is going to Berlin alongside the ?? CATL ?? LFP ? and to what extent there might be a ramp rate increase at some point for Berlin.
 
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Looking at the Q2 financials a relatively mechanistic exercise gives the below, using Troy's production but in my case not taking into account any change in inventory (i.e. my D=P). Other big assumptions are that ARPV stays constant at $47k and that GM% per vehicle stays constant at 21%. Those are two huge assumptions given the changes in those in previous quarters, but I've no good reason to think otherwise in aggregate.

1687793744243.png


A more minor assumption is some continued growth in S&S deliveries and receipts. And everything else held constant and/or with no special entries.
1687793820429.png

So financially it is mostly about the margin. Industrially it is largely about cell supply availability and cell cost. So really it still all keeps coming back to the cells.

As to the shareprice it is now at the more optimistic side of the valuation range. Someone out there thinks that margins and volumes are going to go up more than down.

1687794271719.png


That graph above is spat out of this table, overlain with the actual shareprice trace in green

1687794441999.png
 
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5) I wish Tesla would start putting the Semi numbers in the P&D as I am building an error term in my totals, which is entirely driven by the number that we know (from other sources) that have been produced but not yet included. Grr.
IMHO they built 35 Semis for the Pepsi/FritoLay test fleet, plus one for themselves. The focus now is to incorporate as much feedback as possible into the true first generation version they'll start producing late this year. I don't see any reason to build a few a week in the interim.

By the way is it 2170 from LG that is going to Berlin alongside the ?? CATL ?? LFP ? and to what extent there might be a ramp rate increase at some point for Berlin.
Yes, LG supplies 2170s to Berlin. CATL has supplied prismatic LFP cells there for some time, more recently Tesla began using BYD Blades as well.
 
IMHO they built 35 Semis for the Pepsi/FritoLay test fleet, plus one for themselves. The focus now is to incorporate as much feedback as possible into the true first generation version they'll start producing late this year. I don't see any reason to build a few a week in the interim.


Yes, LG supplies 2170s to Berlin. CATL has supplied prismatic LFP cells there for some time, more recently Tesla began using BYD Blades as well.
I saw a photo a few weeks back that suggested they'd built about another half dozen or so. Maybe that photo really came from the previous quarter. I agree with you that it is sensible to go slow. However I do wish they'd count the ones that go to commercial clients in the P&D numbers as otherwise there is an error term creeping in. Unless of course they are just loaners/gifts for testing purposes ...... in which case they of course should not be counted in P&D. Just as the CT units are not in the P&D. Basically a bit more transparency would be nice. However for now I just assumed at 40x, more as a placeholder than anyting else.

Is there any reason to think that cells to Berlin are going to continue at the same ramp rate, or a steeper one ?
 
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IMHO they built 35 Semis for the Pepsi/FritoLay test fleet, plus one for themselves. The focus now is to incorporate as much feedback as possible into the true first generation version they'll start producing late this year. I don't see any reason to build a few a week in the interim.


Yes, LG supplies 2170s to Berlin. CATL has supplied prismatic LFP cells there for some time, more recently Tesla began using BYD Blades as well.
There were no Berlin cars with CATL batteries at least according to registrations in Norway, so most likely only BYD LFP which started to appear only this month(?)
 
There were no Berlin cars with CATL batteries at least according to registrations in Norway, so most likely only BYD LFP which started to appear only this month(?)
Yes, thanks for the correction. They LFP Ys sold in Europe have long had CATL packs, but those cars were built in Shanghai. It's only the ones popping up recently with BYD packs that are built in Berlin.

Is there any reason to think that cells to Berlin are going to continue at the same ramp rate, or a steeper one ?
Good question. Tesla probably prefers to get enough cells from LG+BYD to run Berlin at a steady 5k/week. That improves factory utilization, and thus COGS. But maybe BYD needs a more gradual ramp. A slow ramp also helps if problems crop up once in actual customer hands -- there aren't as many out there they need to recall and fix.
 
Nice graph!

Maybe Troy was right about Q1 and will be approximately right about Q2. But I feel that during the last 10 years I have followed Tesla so many times have I heard "yeah, they grow nicely from t0 until now, but next quarter the growth story is finally over". And so far they have always been wrong when saying that. When Troy is projecting that even with Berlin and Austin ramping, Q3 production will be lower than Q2 I get very skeptical from a bayesian perspective. Maybe there is demand issues, but Tesla will just lower the price in that case. Are there supply issues? Maybe... With batteries? I think LFP supply should increase and in worse case they will just lower the price of LFP and raise the price of NMC. CATL have been ramping and have very ambitious plans. Is it megapack being so profitable that they will divert batteries there? With FSD around the corner I don't think Musk wants to do that, rather they will just scale down megapack for now. And at some point they will have improved rates of 4680, like Baglino said:
We made significant improvements in both areas. On Texas production, we increased 50% quarter-over-quarter, through yields increased 12% and peak rate increased by 20% and through yields improved by 20%. Altogether, the team accomplished a 25% reduction in COGS over the quarter and we are on track to achieve steady-state cost targets over the next 12 months. And going forward for the rest of the year, the priority one is to yield in cost for the 4680 program as we steadily ramp production ahead of Cybertruck next year.

Do we know anything about who is the customer for CATLs LFP batteries in Germany factory 3.5h away from Tesla?

And recent Tesla has added BYD as another source of batteries.

So how can production fall in Q3? Guess we will have to wait another 3 months to find out if Troy/Gojo et al were correct about the busted growth story and I am missing something they are not.
 
When Troy is projecting that even with Berlin and Austin ramping, Q3 production will be lower than Q2 I get very skeptical from a bayesian perspective.

I expect Giga Shanghai to have lower production in Q3 because they have now enough cars in transit to Europe and Australia to enable a constant flow. Imagine you need 3 liters of water to water your plants, but your garden hose is so long that it takes 2 liters just to fill up the hose. Therefore you would use 5 liters the first time and only 3 liters each time after that. Europe plus Australia sales are around 100K per quarter. The number of cars in transit to and within Europe & Australia at any given time is around 58K. It's not a small number. This used to be close to zero when Tesla didn't care about a constant flow but was OK with delivering 85-90% of cars in the third month of the quarter. That doesn't work anymore. There are not enough ships, not enough employees, not enough time and it costs too much to expedite deliveries. Therefore Tesla has changed tactics.

Here is Tesla's inventory situation. It has been increasing quite a lot in the last few quarters but the increase will slow down after Q2 because there are now enough cars in transit to eliminate the quarterly delivery wave.

xehYT8B.png


Inventory was equal to 15 days of supply at the end of Q1 2023 according to Tesla. See Page 6 of the Q1 2023 shareholder letter. In the footnotes of page 6, Tesla explains the calculation from units to days of supply. I estimate that inventory will be equal to 19 days of supply at the end of Q2. We will find out the actual number when we have the Q2 shareholder letter probably on 19 July.

The increase in inventory from 15K in Q2 2022 to 114K in Q2 2023 is 99K units. These 99,000 cars came from overproduction at Giga Shanghai. That's no longer needed. Giga Shanghai can go back to producing enough cars to match sales. I hope that explains why I estimate a lower production in Q3.

HrTpsV7.png
 
I expect Giga Shanghai to have lower production in Q3 because they have now enough cars in transit to Europe and Australia to enable a constant flow. Imagine you need 3 liters of water to water your plants, but your garden hose is so long that it takes 2 liters just to fill up the hose. Therefore you would use 5 liters the first time and only 3 liters each time after that. Europe plus Australia sales are around 100K per quarter. The number of cars in transit to and within Europe & Australia at any given time is around 58K. It's not a small number. This used to be close to zero when Tesla didn't care about a constant flow but was OK with delivering 85-90% of cars in the third month of the quarter. That doesn't work anymore. There are not enough ships, not enough employees, not enough time and it costs too much to expedite deliveries. Therefore Tesla has changed tactics.

Here is Tesla's inventory situation. It has been increasing quite a lot in the last few quarters but the increase will slow down after Q2 because there are now enough cars in transit to eliminate the quarterly delivery wave.

xehYT8B.png


Inventory was equal to 15 days of supply at the end of Q1 2023 according to Tesla. See Page 6 of the Q1 2023 shareholder letter. In the footnotes of page 6, Tesla explains the calculation from units to days of supply. I estimate that inventory will be equal to 19 days of supply at the end of Q2. We will find out the actual number when we have the Q2 shareholder letter probably on 19 July.

The increase in inventory from 15K in Q2 2022 to 114K in Q2 2023 is 99K units. These 99,000 cars came from overproduction at Giga Shanghai. That's no longer needed. Giga Shanghai can go back to producing enough cars to match sales. I hope that explains why I estimate a lower production in Q3.

HrTpsV7.png

I will summarize this. Tesla will lower production in Q3 as they no longer need to build up inventory. They will not lower prices to create additional demand as they cannot ship enough cars even if they had the demand. Tesla is shipping constrained. Correct?

How about localizing deliveries to the production area? Will that not free up shipping?

Is 25 days of supply in 2020Q1 deemed to be the equilibrium point or was that not a time when they still had the wave? I could see a few more quarters of unwinding the wave and covid overhang.

Thanks for your work btw. Not saying that I know better, just trying to explain why I am confused by the numbers. Future will tell who is right(unless we get some force majeure). My own prediction is that production will grow somewhat in Q3 and ∆production-deliveries will decrease but still be positive.
 
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I expect Giga Shanghai to have lower production in Q3 because they have now enough cars in transit to Europe and Australia to enable a constant flow. Imagine you need 3 liters of water to water your plants, but your garden hose is so long that it takes 2 liters just to fill up the hose. Therefore you would use 5 liters the first time and only 3 liters each time after that. Europe plus Australia sales are around 100K per quarter. The number of cars in transit to and within Europe & Australia at any given time is around 58K. It's not a small number. This used to be close to zero when Tesla didn't care about a constant flow but was OK with delivering 85-90% of cars in the third month of the quarter. That doesn't work anymore. There are not enough ships, not enough employees, not enough time and it costs too much to expedite deliveries. Therefore Tesla has changed tactics.

Here is Tesla's inventory situation. It has been increasing quite a lot in the last few quarters but the increase will slow down after Q2 because there are now enough cars in transit to eliminate the quarterly delivery wave.

xehYT8B.png


Inventory was equal to 15 days of supply at the end of Q1 2023 according to Tesla. See Page 6 of the Q1 2023 shareholder letter. In the footnotes of page 6, Tesla explains the calculation from units to days of supply. I estimate that inventory will be equal to 19 days of supply at the end of Q2. We will find out the actual number when we have the Q2 shareholder letter probably on 19 July.

The increase in inventory from 15K in Q2 2022 to 114K in Q2 2023 is 99K units. These 99,000 cars came from overproduction at Giga Shanghai. That's no longer needed. Giga Shanghai can go back to producing enough cars to match sales. I hope that explains why I estimate a lower production in Q3.

HrTpsV7.png

@Troy many thanks for your generous sharing of data and thoughts here on TMC. What you are doing is difficult and under appreciated. It is easy-ish to pull data together at fairly high quality for one quarter. To do so repeatedly and consistently on a continuous basis is a very different matter entirely. Very well done, and many thanks, BZ.

However regarding the Shanghai issue .....

1687858867338.png


.... I do however disagree with you on what you are suggesting above, namely that Tesla will throttle Shanghai production output "to enable a constant flow" after it has mopped up any consequences of unwinding the wave.

Specifically you are suggesting:
Q1 : 218,539
Q2 : 233,453
Q3 : 208,000
Q4 : 207,000

This implies that Tesla would be leaving approximately 25,000 cars per quarter unbuilt in Shanghai in both Q3 and Q4 versus the yet-to-be-known achievable capacity from Q2-2023 of 233,453. I also see that Q3-2022 was 232,492 so this does suggest that the maximum steady state capacity for Shanghai is now at 233,000 or so. This implies that you think Tesla are prepared to leave 50,000 cars (3/Y) unbuilt during 2023 in Shanghai.

It might be that Tesla does indeed throttle capacity slightly, but if so I would expect it to be for the following reasons:
- to divert cell capacity to another facility (this has been done before by Tesla);
- to divert other component capacity to another facility (this has been done before by Tesla);
- to enable maximum focus on product quality (which I'm not sure I've directly observed before, but which would be rational);
- to better match any demand softness, i.e. to maintain a minimum gross margin for a given product mix (which they have now alluded to, but which we have yet to see in action);

On the last one we know from quarterly calls that the operating margin is now being targetted by the management team as well as the growth targets. So unless they can make cost imprvements then inevitably at some point they may need to throttle to stay at the minimum desired margin on the price/demand curve. So far we know that they are continually adjusting price to maintain full factories, and we know that cost improvements have been going on as well, so it is a multi-variable picture. But we have yet to see (in the 3/Y, to the best of my knowledge) that they have ever deliberately reduced capacity due to lack of demand at the minimum desired margin-driven price point. This may come one day given the revised statement re operating margin now being a key metric, which is why I call it out as being a possible reason for a future production throttle. But if it comes for this reason as early as Q3/Q4 I will be surprised.

There is another potential reason which is because the remainder of the chain between production and final sale becomes constrained, i.e. the delivery chain. Noting that Fremont is also in steady state, this of course might happen because Austin/Berlin increasingly take a wedge of the available delivery capacity. However Austin/Berlin are primarily using land-based delivery and by looking at the store ratio data (as a proxy) we can observe that the land based capacity is not obviously choked:

1687860458631.png
On the sea-borne capacity the vehicle carriers are either fully dedicated to Shanghai, or only really carrying other traffic in the return direction (e.g. Berlin > Taiwan; Fremont > Japan) which is a minor detour. So I can't see that as being a real constraint, and in any case global shipping is in a soft patch so I'd of thought that some spare capacity could be acquired if needed. And in any case this ignores China domestic uptake which still seems strong enough to take an excess of 3/Y at the prices that Tesla are still comfortable with.

So .... I can't see why Tesla would want to leave those 50,000 cars (3/Y) unbuilt in Shanghai in 2023 as a planned decision. I can see why events may force that on them, but not why they might choose to go down that path for the reasons you suggest.

Unless of course the 233,000/qtr capacity is not really a true steady-state capacity, but only achievable as a burst capacity that has downside consequences in subsequent quarters.

What am I missing ?
 
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Specifically you are suggesting:
Q1 : 218,539
Q2 : 233,453
Q3 : 208,000
Q4 : 207,000

This implies that Tesla would be leaving approximately 25,000 cars per quarter unbuilt in Shanghai in both Q3 and Q4 versus the yet-to-be-known achievable capacity from Q2-2023 of 233,453. I also see that Q3-2022 was 232,492 so this does suggest that the maximum steady state capacity for Shanghai is now at 233,000 or so. This implies that you think Tesla are prepared to leave 50,000 cars (3/Y) unbuilt during 2023 in Shanghai.

It might be that Tesla does indeed throttle capacity slightly, but if so I would expect it to be for the following reasons:
- to divert cell capacity to another facility (this has been done before by Tesla);
- to divert other component capacity to another facility (this has been done before by Tesla);
- to enable maximum focus on product quality (which I'm not sure I've directly observed before, but which would be rational);
- to better match any demand softness, i.e. to maintain a minimum gross margin for a given product mix (which they have now alluded to, but which we have yet to see in action);
I can also see Model 3 production going offline and then ramping slowly if they decide to switch to highland in early Q3. Like they did with S/X. Seems like bad strategy to me, but who knows, if it has to be done maybe now when the economy is weak is a good time to get it over with.

We will see, it's an interesting next few quarters to predict, so many ways things can go wrong or go right with very different opinions. Hats off to anyone who manages to predict it correctly!
 
This implies that Tesla would be leaving approximately 25,000 cars per quarter unbuilt in Shanghai in both Q3 and Q4 versus the yet-to-be-known achievable capacity from Q2-2023 of 233,453. I also see that Q3-2022 was 232,492 so this does suggest that the maximum steady state capacity for Shanghai is now at 233,000 or so.
Tesla built 256,448 3/Y in Shanghai in the three months from 9/1/22 through 11/30/22. They would have continued at that pace, or even higher, in December but they voluntarily throttled production due to soft demand. So Shanghai is already running 25k/quarter below capacity, even after the Q1 price cuts.

Will they need to further throttle Shanghai as Berlin ramps? I don' t know. Q3 and especially Q4 are seasonally strong. And they've had some success replacing exports to Europe with other markets, e.g. Canada. But there's a limit to how much those other markets can absorb. It really comes down to domestic China demand. The price cuts worked very well, but I have no idea how much of that is a one-time boost vs. sustainable demand. Training your customers to wait for price cuts is a two-edged sword.
 
Tesla built 256,448 3/Y in Shanghai in the three months from 9/1/22 through 11/30/22. They would have continued at that pace, or even higher, in December but they voluntarily throttled production due to soft demand. So Shanghai is already running 25k/quarter below capacity, even after the Q1 price cuts.

Will they need to further throttle Shanghai as Berlin ramps? I don' t know. Q3 and especially Q4 are seasonally strong. And they've had some success replacing exports to Europe with other markets, e.g. Canada. But there's a limit to how much those other markets can absorb. It really comes down to domestic China demand. The price cuts worked very well, but I have no idea how much of that is a one-time boost vs. sustainable demand. Training your customers to wait for price cuts is a two-edged sword.
Thanks, and a very relevant evidential point.

However, it raises two questions regarding how to assess that evidence:

Q1. Can we be sure that 256k for a 3-month period was not an unsustainable burst ? It might be that the December slowdown was because it was not sustainable.

Q2. Turning the question around, how can we be sure that the slowdown was due to market demand weakness as opposed to some other more technical issue (presumably production-side, or anticipation of impending delivery-side logistics) ? Is there any evidence to support your assertion it was a market issue ?

For now, if I look at the available evidence regarding the Berlin and Austin ramp rates I'm really conflicted. On the one hand the historical quarterly ramp has declined markedly, see red numbers in the table below (assuming the @Troy numbers for Q2-2023 will be correct). On the other hand they average approximately a ramp of 10,000/qtr for each facility (being slightly generous) and so I have projected that as continuing forwards. Being in a generous mood I've also held Fremont and Shanghai at the higher platea rate, not the lower rate.

Q3. Does anyone have any insight into likely future ramp rates in Austin and Berlin ?

(to be clear, this is a minor revision to yesterday's forecast in the Q3-2023 period onwards, not that I showed a great deal of insight into it yesterday)

So .... if everything lines up right and the cell supply side finds the golden key, and the market takes everything that could be made, then 1.9m in 2023 and 2.3m in 2024 is possible. If on the other hand Shanghai has to choke itself by 25,000/qtr in Q3 and Q4 due to demand weakness; and the cell ramp for Austin & Berlin only allows for 5,000 units growth per quarter per facility, then it would only yield 1.8m in 2023 and 2.0m in 2024. This is the higher of those two cases:

1687881158380.png


Holding all other things constant this table shows the EPS consequences of the higher case growth, and the resultant share price trajectories using different valuation approaches. This suggests that in even the higher case scenario the current share price has considerable hope-factor built into it.

1687882383709.png


So ..... has anyone any answers to the questions I pose, or any other insightful thoughts ?
 
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...On the sea-borne capacity the vehicle carriers are either fully dedicated to Shanghai, or only really carrying other traffic in the return direction (e.g. Berlin > Taiwan; Fremont > Japan) which is a minor detour. So I can't see that as being a real constraint, and in any case global shipping is in a soft patch so I'd of thought that some spare capacity could be acquired if needed. And in any case this ignores China domestic uptake which still seems strong enough to take an excess of 3/Y at the prices that Tesla are still comfortable with.

So .... I can't see why Tesla would want to leave those 50,000 cars (3/Y) unbuilt in Shanghai in 2023 as a planned decision. I can see why events may force that on them, but not why they might choose to go down that path for the reasons you suggest.
I agree; it makes zero sense, in fact the opposite is more likely. Unwinding the wave happens as and in proportion to your production rate stabilizing, so as volume growth rate reduces the wave similarly unwinds.

If you are making and delivering 200k/quarter, the incremental impact of <~5% growth rate/quarter is minor logistical strain and can be accommodated with organic growth.
 
Unwinding the wave happens as and in proportion to your production rate stabilizing, so as volume growth rate reduces the wave similarly unwinds.

So you think that the wave (regularly higher deliveries in Europe and the end of each quarter) was caused by production rate changes? What would cause the production rate to oscillate once a quarter? Please anyone correct me if I am wrong but what I remember is that Tesla had a (compared to European deliveries) quite stable production rate but produced for Europe at the beginning of a quarter to allow for shipping and deliveries before the end of quarter and delivered locally in China at the end of the quarter when the cars wouldn´t make it across the ocean in time to be delivered elsewhere.
 
So you think that the wave (regularly higher deliveries in Europe and the end of each quarter) was caused by production rate changes? What would cause the production rate to oscillate once a quarter? Please anyone correct me if I am wrong but what I remember is that Tesla had a (compared to European deliveries) quite stable production rate but produced for Europe at the beginning of a quarter to allow for shipping and deliveries before the end of quarter and delivered locally in China at the end of the quarter when the cars wouldn´t make it across the ocean in time to be delivered elsewhere.
Not so much variability in production, but the need to fill up the logistics network and a long logistics path. Once you are sending boats/trains/trucks at regular intervals to all markets served you hit a point of stability. The only instability is the growth, which likely ends up with a similar (but much smaller) wave cycle.

On a base of 400k/quarter, a fairly evenly distributed production increase (in time and space) of ~20-40k is much easier to accommodate. If as an example it means an extra boat out of Shanghai to Australia/New Zealand to accommodate growth there, there is less impact to the total cycle.

(The S/X with low volumes and a single factory are still going to be a challenge.)
 
Hmmmm ......... interesting to compare

1688028069679.png


1688028133755.png


Quite apart from anything else that slide has the S/X production for Q4-2022 wrong. It was 20,613. I thought for a moment that I'd made a mistake. Anyway it is an interestingly different take on the splits between 3 and Y for all the various sites. Unfortunately it is difficult to be sure what is reality.

1688028309602.png


(by the way, there is a minor difference between my total numbers and the Tesla total numbers because I am trying to keep track of Semi production to the extent that we know about it)
 
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