Need some help. Serious range problems. LR, Dual

[Jwhite0461]

I’ve had my Model 3, long range, dual motor with 18-inch wheels for over a year now. I just hit 12K miles. I’ve always complained that I get horrible range (so I believe). I’ve started testing that. Here are the results.

Test 1

Charged to 100%
Drove 120.4 miles
Charge down to 50%
Highway driving only. Never over 65 mph. Minimal autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. Hwy 281 is a flat road all the way.
33 kWh, 278 Wh/Mi


Test 2

Charged to 100%
Drove 240.4 miles
Charge down to 10%
Mixed driving. Never over 65 mph. NO autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. South Texas roads are very flat. No hills down here whatsoever.
59 kWh, 245 Wh/Mi


Test 3

Charged to 100%
Drove 230.3 miles
Charge down to 12%
City driving only (lots of regen). Never over 50 mph. I really tried to game this one. NO autopilot use at all. Minimal A/C use. The outside temp was about 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Performed over a three-day period. About 8% vampire drain while parked over the three-day period.
54 kWh, 234 Wh/Mi

240 or so miles is the best I can get out of my long-range battery. I have been very careful not allow my battery to get below 30% most of the time, unless performing these tests. I always kept my charge max at 70% then started going to 80%. Only when I travel do I go to 90%. Tesla Support asked me to take my battery down to 10% then up to 100% three times in a row in order to recalibrate.

Can I get some thoughts on what I am seeing here? What kind of range are you getting who have the same configuration I have?

The temp down here in south Texas during the winter is optimal. The highways and roads I performed the tests are as flat as can be. If these roads and temperatures are not the optimal place to get maximum range, then nothing is.

When I drive from McAllen, TX to San Antonio, TX I need to stop at Three Rivers charging station. I always start out at 90%. I get to Three Rivers with 10% charge remaining. It’s exactly 165 miles. I use 80% battery just to go 165 miles? Is this expected?

Thanks.

 

[NovemberXray]

There's a lot of variables that can impact range, your results don't seem crazy to me. FYI, autopilot may actually result in less energy consumption than driving manually. Have you done any analysis of these drives in your old car? You rarely get the MPG that the car is rated for, except in ideal conditions. Many of the same things impact all vehicles energy consumption. Things like road surface, as well as elevation changes (which you mentioned), rain, and wind can be big factors. Have you played with A Better Route Planner (abetterrouteplanner.com)? It's a great tool, and quite accurate for planning trips. You can tweak things like speed, wind, rain, route, weight, etc. and see what it calculates. I have used it extensively and have driving over 100,000 miles in Tesla's since 2016, and found it's calculations to be within +/- 5% of actual. The car is quite good and has only gotten better over the years at estimating, usually within 5% of what it estimates at the beginning of the trip, and never worse than 10% off.

If you know you're setting out on a trip, it's always good to charge as much as you can if you want to minimize charge time... Always charge when you're not having to wait, e.g. over night, or during meal breaks you would take anyway.

People have managed to drive crazy distances, well over 600 miles on a single charge, but you have to drive 30mph.

Keep that in your back pocket: if you're ever running low, you can always drive slow. Otherwise, don't worry about it. 99% of trips, just put in the nav where you want to go, and follow the cars guidance.

Hope that helps.

 

[Tam]

...Minimal autopilot use...NO autopilot use...

It's more objective to let Autopilot do the driving than human do because machines are predictable and objective while human can react to many factors from emotions to environments.

...Tesla Support asked me to take my battery down to 10% then up to 100% three times in a row in order to recalibrate...

That is to recalibrate your battery gauge display.

For example, you set it at 100% and it says "charge complete" at 98%, then that 98% should be labeled as 100% and that's what calibration is for.

Also, if your battery gauge at 100% used to say 310 miles a week ago and now it says 290 miles then that's what recalibration is for, to relabel the 290 miles to some higher miles closer to 310 miles.

Recalibration, in this case, is just like relabeling while your battery is still exactly the same.

...I use 80% battery just to go 165 miles? Is this expected?...

It's a matter of consumption.

Some drivers use Autopilot almost all the time, set at the posted speed limit and abstain from enjoying the comfort measures of HVAC can go further while another driving style would go shorter. So, yes, this is expected.

Usually, to start a trip, and I've been driving for the past 8 years with 2012 Model S, 2017 Mode X, 2018 Model 3, I would have at least about 80 miles buffer in addition to the actual distance.

If I go for a 100 mile trip, I won't stop charging until the battery gauge says at least 180 miles.

For your trip, you started with 90% x 310 miles = 279 miles.
You arrived with the battery gauge reading as 10% x 310 miles = 31 miles

Your battery used: 279-31=248 miles.

The actual distance was 165 miles.

So the inefficient miles are 248-165=83 miles

That's consistent with what I've been driving for the past 8 years with 3 different Tesla car models.

 

[Bigriver]

Can I get some thoughts on what I am seeing here? What kind of range are you getting who have the same configuration I have?

I have your configuration, similar age, similar mileage. With your tests being at ideal temps, your results do seem on the low side to me.

I think there are 2 primary things to look at: the degradation of your battery and the efficiency you are getting for each drive. Based on fleet data I’ve seen, I would expect your displayed rated range at 100% charge to be around 300 miles. Is that in the ballpark for you?

I think your test #2 is most interesting. You went 240 miles and used 90% of the battery. That would extrapolate to 266 miles for the full battery actual range. If you currently have 300 miles rated range, that is almost 90% efficiency (actual miles/rated miles). Not horrible, but my Teslafi data shows I average in the high 90% at your temp. My Teslafi data doesn’t break it down for speed, although I would roughly estimate my typical speed to be similar to what you’ve described.

It’s exactly 165 miles. I use 80% battery just to go 165 miles? Is this expected?

This particular example is much worse than your test#2. This would extrapolate to 206 mile range for the full battery, which is less than 70% efficiency. It is very rare for me to get that low, and certainly not at those temps. But I would note that I often do a trip that includes going from Maumee, OH to Ft Wayne, IN that is essentially flat, a newer road that seems to have a good surface, and no notable wind - yet time and time again I get bad efficiencies for that trip segment. Have not figured it out yet.

 

[ilyak]

The numbers seem low, I get better efficiency on snow tires during the winter in my LR AWD with 30k miles. Try to plug the same trip into abetterrouteplanner.com (adjust as many of the settings as you can to match your scenario - speed and temperature both have substantial impact on range) and see what arrival SoC it predicts.

 

[camalaio]

Where do you get the kWh numbers from? The trip meter?

Do you make any stops for the drives you measured, or is that straight through?

Did you precondition the cabin via the app before the drives?

Are you routed to a Supercharger for any of these drives?

Seems like an issue to me on the surface, given the reasonable temps.

 

[SoManyM3s]

So test 2 should tell you that you have about 280-290 miles or rated range on the car. about 5-10 percent degradation. I have a LR RWD. With 16k miles on the car, I have about 308-313 range on the car.

 

[Uncle Paul]

It probably is your driving at 65 mph that is causing the lower range. EPA tests in a combination of much slower city and county driving, never at 65 mph, to get their figures.

When cruising down the highway at 65 mph you get little benefit of regeneration.

If you were to drive slower, your air resistance would be lower and your range longer.

Texas is an area of very high average speeds. Freeways are wide open, flat and most everybody cruises at above the posted speed limits. Gasoline is cheap and people drive bigger vehicles.

 

[Electric700]

Another thing to check would be that Sentry Mode is not active. Also if you keep your tires at +1 or 2 PSI above 42 (standard for the 18" Model 3 tires), I don't think that should hurt.

 

[rickdogg82]

Test 3 is not so bad. When you take the 12% remaining and 8% lost due to vampire drain and you'd be close to 300 miles.

 

[KenC]

I’ve had my Model 3, long range, dual motor with 18-inch wheels for over a year now. I just hit 12K miles. I’ve always complained that I get horrible range (so I believe). I’ve started testing that. Here are the results.

Test 1

Charged to 100%
Drove 120.4 miles
Charge down to 50%
Highway driving only. Never over 65 mph. Minimal autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. Hwy 281 is a flat road all the way.
33 kWh, 278 Wh/Mi


Test 2

Charged to 100%
Drove 240.4 miles
Charge down to 10%
Mixed driving. Never over 65 mph. NO autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. South Texas roads are very flat. No hills down here whatsoever.
59 kWh, 245 Wh/Mi


Test 3

Charged to 100%
Drove 230.3 miles
Charge down to 12%
City driving only (lots of regen). Never over 50 mph. I really tried to game this one. NO autopilot use at all. Minimal A/C use. The outside temp was about 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Performed over a three-day period. About 8% vampire drain while parked over the three-day period.
54 kWh, 234 Wh/Mi

240 or so miles is the best I can get out of my long-range battery. I have been very careful not allow my battery to get below 30% most of the time, unless performing these tests. I always kept my charge max at 70% then started going to 80%. Only when I travel do I go to 90%. Tesla Support asked me to take my battery down to 10% then up to 100% three times in a row in order to recalibrate.

Can I get some thoughts on what I am seeing here? What kind of range are you getting who have the same configuration I have?

The temp down here in south Texas during the winter is optimal. The highways and roads I performed the tests are as flat as can be. If these roads and temperatures are not the optimal place to get maximum range, then nothing is.

When I drive from McAllen, TX to San Antonio, TX I need to stop at Three Rivers charging station. I always start out at 90%. I get to Three Rivers with 10% charge remaining. It’s exactly 165 miles. I use 80% battery just to go 165 miles? Is this expected?

Thanks.

Well, to be more accurate, you need to know the exterior temps, which you didn't give us in the first two tests. And, it's better to measure roundtrips, since you can reduce the wind effect and elevation.

Having said that, there may be something wrong with your battery capacity, as your data implies about 65kWh total. When was your 3 made?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’ve had my Model 3, long range, dual motor with 18-inch wheels for over a year now. I just hit 12K miles. I’ve always complained that I get horrible range (so I believe). I’ve started testing that. Here are the results.

Test 1

Charged to 100%
Drove 120.4 miles
Charge down to 50%
Highway driving only. Never over 65 mph. Minimal autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. Hwy 281 is a flat road all the way.
33 kWh, 278 Wh/Mi


Test 2

Charged to 100%
Drove 240.4 miles
Charge down to 10%
Mixed driving. Never over 65 mph. NO autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. South Texas roads are very flat. No hills down here whatsoever.
59 kWh, 245 Wh/Mi


Test 3

Charged to 100%
Drove 230.3 miles
Charge down to 12%
City driving only (lots of regen). Never over 50 mph. I really tried to game this one. NO autopilot use at all. Minimal A/C use. The outside temp was about 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Performed over a three-day period. About 8% vampire drain while parked over the three-day period.
54 kWh, 234 Wh/Mi

All makes sense. Looks like your battery has about ~288 rated miles at 100%. Seems relatively normal, or at least not uncommon.

278Wh/mi*120.4mi = 33.47kWh

33.47kWh/230Wh/rmi = 145.5rmi

145.5rmi is 50% of 290.1rmi

240.4mi*245Wh/mi = 58.90kWh
58.90kWh/230Wh/rmi = 256.1rmi

256.1rmi is 90% of 284.5rmi

So your battery is about 287rmi at 100%, roughly (just averaging those results). That means it has 70.3kWh available, of which 70.3kWh*0.955*0.98kWh(trip)/kWh = 65.8kWh is available from 100% to 0%.


230.3mi*234Wh/mi = 53.89kWh

53.89kWh/230Wh/rmi = 234rmi (81.5% of 287)

Used: 88%.

So yes, about 6.5% vampire drain over those three days.

All makes sense.

If you want to get the rated miles, get 230Wh/mi. And drive continuously. Remember that when you get to 0%, you have only used about 95.5% of your energy. That's why the rated miles (displayed) are not set at 245Wh/rmi (they are 4.5% less).

2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’ve had my Model 3, long range, dual motor with 18-inch wheels for over a year now. I just hit 12K miles. I’ve always complained that I get horrible range (so I believe). I’ve started testing that. Here are the results.

Test 1

Charged to 100%
Drove 120.4 miles
Charge down to 50%
Highway driving only. Never over 65 mph. Minimal autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. Hwy 281 is a flat road all the way.
33 kWh, 278 Wh/Mi


Test 2

Charged to 100%
Drove 240.4 miles
Charge down to 10%
Mixed driving. Never over 65 mph. NO autopilot use. Minimal A/C use. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Non-stop driving. South Texas roads are very flat. No hills down here whatsoever.
59 kWh, 245 Wh/Mi


Test 3

Charged to 100%
Drove 230.3 miles
Charge down to 12%
City driving only (lots of regen). Never over 50 mph. I really tried to game this one. NO autopilot use at all. Minimal A/C use. The outside temp was about 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Tire pressure at 42 psi. Performed over a three-day period. About 8% vampire drain while parked over the three-day period.
54 kWh, 234 Wh/Mi

240 or so miles is the best I can get out of my long-range battery. I have been very careful not allow my battery to get below 30% most of the time, unless performing these tests. I always kept my charge max at 70% then started going to 80%. Only when I travel do I go to 90%. Tesla Support asked me to take my battery down to 10% then up to 100% three times in a row in order to recalibrate.

Can I get some thoughts on what I am seeing here? What kind of range are you getting who have the same configuration I have?

The temp down here in south Texas during the winter is optimal. The highways and roads I performed the tests are as flat as can be. If these roads and temperatures are not the optimal place to get maximum range, then nothing is.

When I drive from McAllen, TX to San Antonio, TX I need to stop at Three Rivers charging station. I always start out at 90%. I get to Three Rivers with 10% charge remaining. It’s exactly 165 miles. I use 80% battery just to go 165 miles? Is this expected?

Thanks.

That’s just the reality of our dual motor cars. I would love to see those kind of numbers honestly!

Something to consider also, 100% charge isn’t always better (and this is where I really feel Tesla/EPA is misleading on range) as you are without or in very low regen that first 5-8% of drive which inflates your wh/mi.

Try starting your journey at closer to 95% and you’ll be amazed at what a difference regen makes. Oh: one more thing. These are heavy cars and while the sticker may say 42 PSI I’ve actually been running closer to 46 and seen about a ~5% improvement just from that.

 

[Jwhite0461]

Thank you all. I really appreciate all the great responses. I took delivery of my car in September 2018. The VIN is in the 66,000 range. All three tests were performed within the past few weeks. The temperature for all three test was roughly between 70° and 78°F.


Anytime I am on the highways I do use cruise control for efficiency purposes. Test #1 was non stop, McAllen, TX to Three Rivers, TX (165 miles).


Test #3 was where I was hoping to achieve, at least, close to 300 miles for the full charge. That was pure, 100%, city driving with lots of regen. Everything I did in test #3 was with the expressed purpose of trying to achieve maximum range. I never accelerated hard from a standstill. I feathered all of my starts watching the energy graph closely. Never over 50 mph. The far majority of the driving was between 35 and 45 mph. I did everything in my power to try to achieve maximum range. I didn’t turn the radio on and even the fan speed was set to 1. No passengers, no cargo, just me and hopes and dreams.


Would you say I have a reportable problem to Tesla?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Stock tires? Aero covers?

 

[Watts_Up]

I’ve had my Model 3, long range, dual motor with 18-inch wheels for over a year now.
I just hit 12K miles. I’ve always complained that I get horrible range (so I believe).
I’ve started testing that.
Here are the results.

If you ever need getting a better range on a long trip, increasing the tire pressure will make some difference.

The recommended pressure is 42 psi, but I always set between 45 and 50 psi.

Also you should check the alignment. When my car was brand new, I make an initial alignment check, and all the toe angles were out of the spec.

A bigger toe angle provides better handling in curbs but increase the friction on straight line.

I go to Big'O Tires who provides a second free six month alignment check.

So I would recommend checking regularly the alignment and tire pressure.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Would you say I have a reportable problem to Tesla?

No.

Let us know what your rated miles are at 100%. Assuming it is around 285-290 (about 258 miles at 90%), then all is well.

Use the MXM4s and Aeros and drive below 50mph and you’ll do fine. Remember, you have to be below 230Wh/mi if you want to get 285 miles on a full charge.

Because you have lost 6.5% capacity, you need to do about 215Wh/mi to get 310 miles. Obviously that has to be driven continuously without stopping.

 

[KenC]

Thank you all. I really appreciate all the great responses. I took delivery of my car in September 2018. The VIN is in the 66,000 range. All three tests were performed within the past few weeks. The temperature for all three test was roughly between 70° and 78°F.


Anytime I am on the highways I do use cruise control for efficiency purposes. Test #1 was non stop, McAllen, TX to Three Rivers, TX (165 miles).


Test #3 was where I was hoping to achieve, at least, close to 300 miles for the full charge. That was pure, 100%, city driving with lots of regen. Everything I did in test #3 was with the expressed purpose of trying to achieve maximum range. I never accelerated hard from a standstill. I feathered all of my starts watching the energy graph closely. Never over 50 mph. The far majority of the driving was between 35 and 45 mph. I did everything in my power to try to achieve maximum range. I didn’t turn the radio on and even the fan speed was set to 1. No passengers, no cargo, just me and hopes and dreams.


Would you say I have a reportable problem to Tesla?

I'd check to make sure your car isn't one of those with missing connections in the battery. The date of mfr may be in the suspect period.

 

[ElectricIAC]

No.

Let us know what your rated miles are at 100%. Assuming it is around 285-290 (about 258 miles at 90%), then all is well.

Use the MXM4s and Aeros and drive below 50mph and you’ll do fine. Remember, you have to be below 230Wh/mi if you want to get 285 miles on a full charge.

Because you have lost 6.5% capacity, you need to do about 215Wh/mi to get 310 miles. Obviously that has to be driven continuously without stopping.

2-3 follow setting AP behind a semi ~65-72mph (105-115kph) yielded ~240-260 wh/mi for me tonight with heat on recirc 15deg from ambient (50-52f) This was with my boat anchors on AS3+ pumped up to 46#.

Can’t wait for lighter wheels and warmer weather to see what this car can really do!

 

[Vaillant]

As a point of reference, I have an August 2018 LR AWD with ~14k miles on it and my average lifetime efficiency is 260 Wh/mile, living in the benign climate of NorCal. This is with the 18” wheels, but the Aero covers off.