Negotiations or freebies when buying??

[XHokie]

Totally agree with you on them not clearly communicating that their original estimate is an estimate. Mine said May; I ended up with late June. It wasn't surprising when news started surfacing that they had a huge seat recall and then QA issues that essentially halted the factory, just days after I ordered. And honestly my wife was getting in a tizzy about knowing other people with higher VINs, and further from California than us, were getting their cars and we still had no end in sight.

If you were a vendor to Tesla, Tesla likely had the negotiation leverage to put underperformance penalties into the contract. Again, as the consumer, you don't have that leverage, and nowhere in the order agreement does it even refer to promised/estimated delivery dates. The final purchase agreement that you get shortly before delivery does have an "VEHICLE TO BE DELIVERED ON OR ABOUT:", but it definitely has the "or about" language that gives them the legal leeway to hold your car indefinitely.

Im not actually hard to please and while im upset about the whole delivery thing it was completely avoidable if they were not preaching july from sales all the way to order i wouldn't have held them to it thats what they told me i sold my car moved some money around based off the month THEY set. If that was never the intention dont wait until after you took my money and i cant do anything about it short of taking you to court to tell me you were wrong and start throwing the word estimate around ..if you had told me upfront it was an estimate none of this would have happened ... and thats just my issue i wont even get into the other people who were convinced into upgrading options on the promise of an earlier delivery.

If i was a vendor to tesla and i pulled this same stunt with them tell me i wouldnt be getting sued right now


but looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree and just sum it up as there communication and customer service skills need to be improved.

IMO, I do agree with you both that generally speaking Tesla Sales Reps and DSs are not doing a great job of communication after an order has been placed, but I don't think that's across the board or even something that is broadly going wrong. I think there is significant percentage of buyers on these forums (I would guess at least 1/3 based on what I've seen) that feel Tesla did properly communicate with them and set the proper expectations. I am one of them...my DS told me BEFORE I ordered that, even though the Design Center says "July Delivery", that is definitely an estimate and not to be surprised if it goes into August. I'm mentally preparing for August...even September. Any later than that and yes, I will probably throw a fit because I have already traded in my Range Rover to Tesla as part of this process...driving rental cars until I get my X.

The reality is, and I think many people are forgetting this...this is not an automotive manufacturer like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, MB, BMW, etc. that has been around for several decades now. This is a company that is still in it's infancy, will probably continue to be for the next 5-10 years, and has barely scratched the surface of what they will be capable of doing in the future, IF it all goes well and things pan out for EVs as projected. Tesla may be a decade or so away from that reality coming to fruition though. Until then, we have to understand and realize that we are working with a non-traditional car manufacturing and buying experience, which I think most will agree is the future and better process than what we have all been used to with the "establishment" (not to sound political...). It's just going to take time, training of their people/resources to improve, patience on our parts, and genuine support from it's customer base to help it all be successful. More importantly, I think Tesla/Elon understands all of this and are willing to help make it happen.

 

[Chopr147]

I'm with you there. They are still in a learning curve. The Tesla rep.'s to a man/woman have all been friendly and mostly young. I have spoken to 7 of them in 3 different Tesla centers over the past 2 months and I think only one was over 30 yrs. old. I had a few questions that the rep's needed help answering (not a problem) and in the NY store , they did not realize that NY has a $2000 credit. I was a little surprised at that and forwarded the info to him. I also told him I would not trade my car in just yet due to the possible delay in delivery.

 

[WhitneyAA]

No. Your just going to have to pay what everybody else pays. Do you bargain with Apple? Or Amazon? Why do you think Tesla should give you a tow package? Sorry if this sounds rude, but if you want to bargain maybe you should look at a different car.

Just asking, sorry if I offended you!

 

[Hengist]

Do you think they will throw in a tow package??

No. Everybody gets treated the same with Tesla. Even staff. Even Elon's family. Nobody gets any special deals. Refreshing, isn't it?

 

[Kim.T]

When I picked up my TMS the tank was filled And after the first trip I came back and filled the tank again.
This has never happend when I bought an ICE

 

[Chopr147]

True, you usually only get the first tank filled and then it's Sayonara Tesla will keep fill'in the tank, awesome

 

[Rove]

I'm with you there. They are still in a learning curve. The Tesla rep.'s to a man/woman have all been friendly and mostly young. I have spoken to 7 of them in 3 different Tesla centers over the past 2 months and I think only one was over 30 yrs. old. I had a few questions that the rep's needed help answering (not a problem) and in the NY store , they did not realize that NY has a $2000 credit. I was a little surprised at that and forwarded the info to him. I also told him I would not trade my car in just yet due to the possible delay in delivery.

I was not aware of the $2000 tax credit and I live in NYC. Is there anything I need to do t get it? I pick up my car at the end of this week.

 

[Chopr147]

New York State Enacts Electric Vehicle Consumer Rebate Program

This is where I read about it. I also looked into it on the NY.gov site and it is legit. Like the fed credit, it is a NY tax credit meaning when your taxes are done in 2017 it increses your tax check or at least decreases taxes owed.

 

[Chopr147]

New York just announced tax credit for EV !

This is the thread about it when it passed April 2016

 

[XHokie]

New York State Enacts Electric Vehicle Consumer Rebate Program

This is where I read about it. I also looked into it on the NY.gov site and it is legit. Like the fed credit, it is a NY tax credit meaning when your taxes are done in 2017 it increses your tax check or at least decreases taxes owed.

I was told by my Tesla store that the Federal tax credit will not increase your refund, or create a $7500 refund if you owed $0, just reduce what your tax liability is. Is that not correct?

 

[Rove]

New York just announced tax credit for EV !

This is the thread about it when it passed April 2016

I think I read they have 12 months to implement it. It may not be in effect yet. I can't find which form to submit to recover the credit.

 

[ccutrer]

I was told by my Tesla store that the Federal tax credit will not increase your refund, or create a $7500 refund if you owed $0, just reduce what your tax liability is. Is that not correct?

It directly decreases your tax liability. Depending on how much tax you have paid throughout the year, it will likely increase your refund of the amount you have already paid. It is a non-refundable credit, which means if your actual tax liability is less than $7500, you will not be refunded more than you paid.

 

[TexasEV]

It seems unlikely that anyone buying a Tesla would be paying less than $7500 federal income tax in a year. That's the tax on about $55,000 taxable income for a couple, less for a single.

 

[ChadS]

We have had a thread where many people listed reasons why they don't have enough tax liability. Some, like me, are retired and have very little taxable income (we can usually generate some by moving assets out of nontaxable accounts, though there may be obvious reasons we don't want to do that). Others have other regular and significant tax deductions. One-off issues like having or carrying forward a large capital loss or unexpected medical expenses can result in no tax liability too, surprising people that usually have considerable liability.

A combination of these caused me to miss out on the federal tax credit when I bought my Model S, despite knowing about the issue, taking some steps and thinking I was sufficiently prepared for it. Which is one advantage to a POS rebate rather than a tax credit. But also one reason the tax credit does not "cost" as much as some assume it does - not everybody gets it.

 

[Hengist]

I was told by my Tesla store that the Federal tax credit will not increase your refund, or create a $7500 refund if you owed $0, just reduce what your tax liability is. Is that not correct?

Its a tax credit. That means that it reduces your federal income tax total by $7500, but it will not reduce it below zero. In almost all cases that means you will pay $7500 less income tax than you otherwise would. If you would normally get a $1000 refund, you get $8500 refined instead. If you normally owe $10,000, you will owe $2,500 instead.

When you say owed $0 you mean, had enough payroll deduction to not owe extra when you file taxes. In that case, you get a $7500 refund. What store means is you had no net taxable income and paid no withholding or estimated tax, so in that case the tax credit does not get you an extra refund.

I bet you are paying more than$7500 in estimated tax or withholding. You will get the benefit of the $7500 tax credit in that case.

 

[Pandamoanium]

Its a tax credit. That means that it reduces your federal income tax total by $7500, but it will not reduce it below zero. In almost all cases that means you will pay $7500 less income tax than you otherwise would. If you would normally get a $1000 refund, you get $8500 refined instead. If you normally owe $10,000, you will owe $2,500 instead.

When you say owed $0 you mean, had enough payroll deduction to not owe extra when you file taxes. In that case, you get a $7500 refund. What store means is you had no net taxable income and paid no withholding or estimated tax, so in that case the tax credit does not get you an extra refund.

I bet you are paying more than$7500 in estimated tax or withholding. You will get the benefit of the $7500 tax credit in that case.

I think you have it mixed up, or I could be wrong, but honestly I'm pretty sure the info below is accurate.

The federal credit is literally a line of credit towards your tax liability, but underage will result in it just going away. So if the above owed at the end of the year post filing $7,500.00 then the person utilized all of it. If they owed only $1,000.00 then they would have $6,500 incentive left, which then goes away and is NOT refunded.

Now some states have a tax incentive, which is what you mentioned and will be paid to the person(s) filing if they do not utilize it. For instance, I'm in Colorado, if I use $1,000.00 then I will get $5,000.00 from my state.

 

[XHokie]

Its a tax credit. That means that it reduces your federal income tax total by $7500, but it will not reduce it below zero. In almost all cases that means you will pay $7500 less income tax than you otherwise would. If you would normally get a $1000 refund, you get $8500 refined instead. If you normally owe $10,000, you will owe $2,500 instead.

When you say owed $0 you mean, had enough payroll deduction to not owe extra when you file taxes. In that case, you get a $7500 refund. What store means is you had no net taxable income and paid no withholding or estimated tax, so in that case the tax credit does not get you an extra refund.

I bet you are paying more than$7500 in estimated tax or withholding. You will get the benefit of the $7500 tax credit in that case.

Good explanation and thanks for clarifying!

 

[Pandamoanium]

Good explanation and thanks for clarifying!

No problem, I should clarify though since some people are picky, this is all at the end of the year post filing. Meaning it's depending on your tax liability. Kind of easy to figure things out when you know your tax bracket and roughly how much gets withheld. A lot of people have specific situations but I like to play paranoid and never count those in. Just my bracket and so far what has been held.

 

[Super_Popular]

I will give a brand new Tesla umbrella to anyone who buys my Sig for sale

 

[Hengist]

I think you have it mixed up, or I could be wrong, but honestly I'm pretty sure the info below is accurate.

The federal credit is literally a line of credit towards your tax liability, but underage will result in it just going away. So if the above owed at the end of the year post filing $7,500.00 then the person utilized all of it. If they owed only $1,000.00 then they would have $6,500 incentive left, which then goes away and is NOT refunded.

Now some states have a tax incentive, which is what you mentioned and will be paid to the person(s) filing if they do not utilize it. For instance, I'm in Colorado, if I use $1,000.00 then I will get $5,000.00 from my state.

I stand by what I wrote, having gotten these credits four times in the last ten years. The key is that "owed at the end of the year" has absolutely nothing to do with whether you need to write a check to the IRS in April. The credit does not care what you owe. It cares whether, once you are otherwise all squared up with the IRS, you have EVER in that squaring up process paid ANY MONEY to the IRS, either as payroll deduction, backup withholding, withholding from investment redemptions, estimated taxes, etc. if you have, you get the money back, up to a maximum of $7500. It does not matter whether you are getting a refund or are reducing the amount of a tax check that you are writing.