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New 6.1 Trip Chart feature takes the guesswork out of winter range

supratachophobia

Active Member
Sep 24, 2014
3,850
2,678
Columbus, Ohio
I just wanted to say that I think the Dev team really did a nice job with the trip mode predictions. We used it this past weekend and based our confidence on those numbers. It was the least stressful trip with regards to range I've had to date.

Before I was trying to use the 30 mile average graph to estimate range but that had the potential to only give you 1/8th of an accurate view into range. This is way better. Thank you Dev team.

Were there plans to insert super charger waypoints into the trip if they were needed or do we still do that manually?
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,866
Toronto, ON
I've tried it a couple of time on my +/- 40 mile (each way) commute and it is significantly off from the initial prediction. Probably 20% or more.
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,507
1,715
Mount Washington Valley
Don't set your destination until you leave the garage?...

Currently, there's a 50F difference between outside and garage temperatures and I will experiment with your suggestion soon.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think anyone really knows for certain, but from what I've read I don't think it uses the outside temperature itself at all. However, the estimate clearly changes with the weather.

What some earlier posts suggested is that it uses current or recent past energy consumption/efficiency to protect the chart - which would thereby include your HVAC use from the weather.

...

If I understand correctly, the predictions should get better with time, at least as long as we continue to see ambient temps around 0F. HVAC is considered in some way. If I blast the heat and enter a destination, then cancel the route, turn off the heat, and re-enter the same destination, the second estimate will be for less energy consumption than the first.

Your neural net suggestion is probably the optimal solution, but I think Tesla's programming team already has a full docket.
 
Last edited:

ZsoZso

Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2014
1,713
9,945
Brampton, Ontario
What I found most useful was to continuously display the projected destination remaining charge on the navigation map rather than wasting half the screen to display the trip chart.

How do you get the "destination remaining charge" displayed on the navigation screen ?
(or where is it displayed, maybe I'm just not looking at the right spot on the screen?)

Thanks!
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,507
1,715
Mount Washington Valley
How do you get the "destination remaining charge" displayed on the navigation screen ?
(or where is it displayed, maybe I'm just not looking at the right spot on the screen?)

With the NAV screen open, it should appear directly to the right of the destination address. In other words, just below the list of turn-by-turn directions and just above the line that provides remaining distance and estimated time of arrival.
 

trils0n

2013 P85
Feb 12, 2013
1,527
1,947
SF Bay Area
And if it isn't there, touch the bottom of the direction list, where the remaining distance and eta is, and it will pop up. Press the same area and it will hide.
 

supratachophobia

Active Member
Sep 24, 2014
3,850
2,678
Columbus, Ohio
I've tried it a couple of time on my +/- 40 mile (each way) commute and it is significantly off from the initial prediction. Probably 20% or more.

Very odd. Our trip was there and back, 80 miles each way (100% highway mind you), and it was great. It even seemed to take into account all the hills very well.

Also, How long as the instrument cluster nav screen had terrain topology? It was basically 3d looking.
 

ljwobker

Geek.
Nov 30, 2012
241
22
Raleigh, NC
I don't think you'll see any difference in consumption based on the regen setting, unless you are forced to use friction braking to hold speed on the steeper downhills, when regen is set to Low. I haven't yet seen a hill so steep that Standard regen wouldn't hold whatever speed you might choose.

Try the old priest grade, on the west side of the Hwy 120 entrance to Yosemite. I left the Groveland Hotel this morning with nearly a full charge, and as such was regen-limited and had to ride the brakes down the whole time. I was so disappointed because I thought I MIGHT have found a hill that could outrun the regen... I guess I'll just have to go back ;-)
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,866
Toronto, ON
Very odd. Our trip was there and back, 80 miles each way (100% highway mind you), and it was great. It even seemed to take into account all the hills very well

Used it again on a 60 mile (each way) outing on Saturday and it was still significantly off with my car. Not as much, but still out by over 10% (worse). For some reason, it seems overly optimistic and I am a very conservative driver too.
 

Cottonwood

Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Feb 27, 2009
5,088
166
Colorado
I have found the predictions to be in error, both + and - from the starting gate, but adjust as you drive to use your driving style on this trip. Below is a good example of me beating predictions. By the time I was 30 miles into the trip, it was predicting 15% remaining, and at the end, it got colder, and I sped up as I knew that I had the goal made, so 10% is pretty close. You can easily see the three passes on the route, Wolf Creek Pass near the beginning, Poncha Pass a little right of center, and Fremont Pass towards the end.

BTW, this was 241 miles on a single charge in a P85D!

I agree with Steve. It underestimates energy use on climbs and overestimates energy use on descents, but with balanced ups and downs, it averages out.

Pagosa-Silverthorne-2.JPG
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,507
1,715
Mount Washington Valley
Used it again on a 60 mile (each way) outing on Saturday and it was still significantly off with my car. Not as much, but still out by over 10% (worse). For some reason, it seems overly optimistic and I am a very conservative driver too.

I'm in the same boat as you for predictions prior to departure. The system does does a good job of factoring distance, speed, current HVAC, and elevation changes.

However, this time of year we're heavily impacted by factors ignored by 6.1:

1) Increased air density due to cold temperatures.
2) Heating (only considered if running when you enter the destination).
3) Higher rolling resistance Winter tires.
4) Snow on the ground.


Once you start driving and over consuming, 6.1 first gradually increases its consumption estimate, then figures out the situation's not going to improve and jumps down to a more accurate forecast. The process then repeats the next time because there is no memory or learning.

Here's an example from Saturday. The car was garaged, but then outside with heat running for 30 minutes before I entered the destination and departed. Average temperature for the trip was -17C/+1F.
Average posted speed limit was 80 km/h, but actual speed was lower. There was a dusting of snow everywhere, and 30% of the trip was on back roads over hard-packed snow. The initial estimate of using 22% (90% to 68%) was too low by 36%, but at least by half way the revised estimate was spot on as I finished with the 60% predicted by the green line.

I never used evtripplanner much before, but its predictions with the default 72F temperature settings are very similar to 6.1's. However, evtripplanner really shines when you enter temperatures and I plan to make a small donation to the site. In other cases, I will let 6.1 account for the 2,000 feet of elevation change between some Superchargers, but I will then adjust for weather on my own.

Bras du Nord.jpg
 

JohnQ

Active Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,612
75
Redding, CT
I find it hard to believe that temperature is being taken into account. I drove from JFK back to CT in 15F temps with a cold soaked battery. Initial display showed 3% remaining at home. Too close for comfort so I switched to the Darien SC where it showed significantly more. I drove the speed limit and pulled in with 3% remaining. This was about 20 miles short of my initial destination. Did the battery heat throw it off? Not sure but I'll test again this weekend during my drive to VT in likely -10F temps with a pre-warmed battery.
 

mejojo

Supporting Member
Aug 4, 2014
991
2,462
Santa Paula, CA
The blips of energy usage aren't just from grades....I see a predicted drop when there is a freeway on-ramp on the flat. It makes me wonder whether the prediction is based upon real historical usage data. It's kind of fun to try to beat the prediction.
 

majorlance

Member
Sep 22, 2014
204
0
Bethesda, MD
The blips of energy usage aren't just from grades....I see a predicted drop when there is a freeway on-ramp on the flat. It makes me wonder whether the prediction is based upon real historical usage data. It's kind of fun to try to beat the prediction.

What we really need is for winter to be over and spring to arrive! :)
 

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