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New headlights retrofit
- Thread starter bomax
- Start date
Other manufacturers do allow such changes. For example, even 20 years ago BMW offered halogen to xenon retrofits on their cars. The steps involved were pretty similar to what's being attempted here - swap the headlights and update the configuration on the car's software. Said attempts did not have to be by BMW proper either. Anyone who had access to their diagnostic software (which was made available to consumers and garages much like toolbox) could make the desired changes.
I'm not sure what Tesla's game here is. Honestly, it's one of the things that pisses me off the most about the company. Should be able to do what I want to my car.
It's honestly bullshit that the mothership has more permissions than me in my own car. Protect your IP, DRM the crap out of it, put me on the naughty list for updates, screen changes to HV stuff to prevent me from using a supercharger, I don't care. But don't tell me that I can't change the configuration of my own property. I'll pay for your lightshow thing if I must, but I'm sick of asking for permission instead of forgiveness. /rant
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Already laid out the reason why Tesla is different, they have to support OTAs where they have a difficult enough time dealing with the various configurations (there's no gatekeeper in terms of dealers being the ones installing updates).
I don't believe for a second if an OTA breaks the headlights of those retrofitted, the people who did it won't take issue with Tesla. Also they presumably also expect any update to matrix functionality to apply to them also (not just remain a dumb light). So there is no advantage for them to offer this unless they instead choose to do retrofits themselves (in which case obviously they consciously assume any liability and support).
Tesla already manages this by putting certain users behind on the feature list, like the green-light signal thing. It's actually much easier for software devs to QA the Tesla platform because it's effectively a computer, where modules can be virtually installed or reconfigured. I'd argue that dealerships had a much harder time with updates, considering a lot of the QA work comes about from non-technical persons locally instead of the actual devs (with the nightmare of aftermarket and grey-market parts available on other platforms). How is a random beamer tech to know if some aftermarket module, installed blindly in a car, will break an update? Gatekeeping clearly isn't the silver bullet you think it is.
On the second point, who cares? They can take issue. People get upset over much more insignificant things and it doesn't stop corporations from operating oblivious to those concerns. There are a slew of DIYers who make Tesla's life harder as is and one more feature isn't going to make a difference. Again, I still think it's a non-issue in the end as the headlamp system is behind two layers of abstraction which has not broken at all with software implementation. It doesn't mean it won't be an issue in the future, granted, but the update schema is already robust against total failures of modules (rolls back updates that break them), let alone transient quirks which won't affect hardened ECUs.
Same, and that's my concern: that it's just a dollar-store version of the lightshow feature, haha.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's much easier, because without OTAs, most of the time you install only one software and you don't change it for the life of the car until there is another physical change. If something breaks, it'll be at a dealer and they can deal with it.
Tesla updates their cars multiple times a year OTA. If something breaks it'll be with a customer, many times when they need to use the car immediately.
It's liability and support resources drained for Tesla with nothing gained on their side. Maybe when they have too much matrix light supply (and a shortage of reflectors) they might have incentive to support this, but not when the situation is flipped and all this does is generate unwanted demand for a part with limited supply.
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I fail to see how that is functionally any different from an OTA rollback which happens automatically. In this scenario gatekeeping does nothing because how is some random tech to diagnose heterogenous modules and parts if they were to be installed. The whole argument hinges on the idea that Teslas are uniquely difficult to deploy updates, which is the exact opposite.
That is their entire business model and their decision to implement this way. As I said, the fail-safe is a rollback so there is no harm here.
I don't think they give two tweets about global headlight supply; clearly they have no intention in making this part scarce (and neither is there any indication it's scarce aside from supply chain hiccups we've grown accustomed to). I believe it's a matter of a draconian, zealous defense of their IP, funneling everyone into their service centers, and killing third party support in the cradle. It's in their interest to prevent us from even changing banal things, and indeed there is absolutely no economic incentive to allow true control over our own cars.
They don't have a right to not be inconvenienced by us. I have a right to not to be inconvenienced in enjoying my rights in ownership
All that being said, all we can do is huff and puff but Tesla will do what they do, haha.I do think Tesla will eventually support the swap if for no other reason than to simplify their inventory. That seems to have been their major motivation for switching to the matrix headlights anyway (one part worldwide)
My 21 SR+ has matrix, gen4 ccs ecu and center console2.0. My 20 M3P does not. I've already swapped the center console on my M3P to the version 2.0. I've swapped the charge ecu to gen4 so I got ccs1 enabled. Only thing left are these headlights. It's like Legos for big kids...it all fits together for the most part.
Tesla adds Matrix LED headlights to Model Y Long Range, but only temporarily
Yesterday we told you about Tesla finally adding the not-so-new wood door panels to the Model Y Long Range, a feature that was first introduced in the Model 3 over one year ago. The new […]
driveteslacanada.ca
They already have a shortage of reflectors headlights, and this is the proof that they only need to code one little thing and everything works. Im thinking of trading my headlights with Tesla
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The factory configuration always worked, this was known since the start. People however are talking about supporting a configuration that does not match factory (either forcing it with an override, or having system autodetect the light type). This is something Tesla has not done, nor have they offered any retrofits.Tesla adds Matrix LED headlights to Model Y Long Range, but only temporarily
Yesterday we told you about Tesla finally adding the not-so-new wood door panels to the Model Y Long Range, a feature that was first introduced in the Model 3 over one year ago. The new […]
They already have a shortage of reflectors headlights, and this is the proof that they only need to code one little thing and everything works.
From the looks of it, it's only a 1-2 month shortage, not a permanent switch over, given according to Tesla, they are going back to reflectors in October. This points to me that matrix light supply is not solved yet, otherwise there is no reason to switch back.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
You are making the assumption the failure would be immediately detectable by the update process and it'll just roll back. This is not the case for many issues. Take for example the trunk stopping or the USB drive unmounting that was introduced in recent updates. There was no way for the user to roll back. We had to wait for an update to fix it, which was only tolerable given they were relatively minor annoyances and not critical for driving (but headlight obviously is).
Tesla wasn't the only one that dropped matrix temporarily, Porsche and Audi did too. That points to me supply problems.I don't think they give two tweets about global headlight supply; clearly they have no intention in making this part scarce (and neither is there any indication it's scarce aside from supply chain hiccups we've grown accustomed to). I believe it's a matter of a draconian, zealous defense of their IP, funneling everyone into their service centers, and killing third party support in the cradle. It's in their interest to prevent us from even changing banal things, and indeed there is absolutely no economic incentive to allow true control over our own cars.
They don't have a right to not be inconvenienced by us. I have a right to not to be inconvenienced in enjoying my rights in ownership
Matrix LED unavailable - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums
RSQ3 - Chip Shortage - Spec Change?
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Trunk and USB operation aren't part of the deployment QA built in to the update process, and neither are many of the software bugs that you infer. This is because it requires active operation of those items to detect errors and cannot be done by a CAN self-test which is built in to the modules. If it's a solid-state device or really anything not dealing with UX, then they can test it automatically. Headlights are solid-state and have a fairly narrow failure mode; maybe the calibration data could be interpreted differently (why they would deploy an update with wildly different formats is unknown but it's not impossible).
I still think you made a good point: there are indeed limits in the entire software deployment model and when it comes to unknown states dependent on users. This is why we need user-implemented rollbacks or easier methods of automatically requesting those rollbacks.
I think you misunderstood; I think the issue with the matrix headlight supply is a symptom of larger supply-chain issues rather than an innate quality of the headlights themselves. There may be indeed a common supplier issue for the chips, or it could be a logistical issue with the deliveries. Either way, I don't believe Tesla really cares about the tens of owners requesting matrix headlights when they are dealing with problems affecting thousands of vehicles on the line. They can just put a purchase order in for an owner and sit on it for months if it really is a scarcity issue rather than our run-of-the-mill logistics issues (i.e. they operate very lean and don't keep a sufficient safety stock for the current supplier landscape).
goRt
Active Member
But the model S/X had HW2>3 updates, screen updates, CCS charger updates, S had door handle updates (numerous)
So Tesla has a history of updating parts on cars already delivered - this is simple a matter of choice on Tesla's part.
Candleflame
Active Member
indeed, in the config it will just say "Matrix headlight" yes or no
I reached out to another service center and they have a tech "looking into it" I told them they need an engineer to update my config from premium to global. Haven't got a "No" yet.... crossing my fingers. Appointment is tomorrow... I should know today.
