NEW Model 3 Highland review!

[nate704]

 

[chinney]

My 2020 Model 3 is horrible on the icy roads here in Norway with standard regen even with studded tyres. It behaves much better when the regen is set to low.

Really? Our Model 3 (2020 LR AWD) has no issues at all here in Ottawa ON (Canada) and I never touch the regen and I don't have studded tires, just regular good-quality winter tires. It is, by a good margin, the best car I have owned on slippery/snowy roads (and I have owned a Subaru). The traction control is just excellent, and I suppose that it helps that the car is quite heavy.

 

[Braumin]

Really? Our Model 3 (2020 LR AWD) has no issues at all here in Ottawa ON (Canada) and I never touch the regen and I don't have studded tires, just regular good-quality winter tires. It is, by a good margin, the best car I have owned on slippery/snowy roads (and I have owned a Subaru). The traction control is just excellent, and I suppose that it helps that the car is quite heavy.

Probably AWD has a lot to do with that since it can and does regen on the front axle when it is icy out.

 

[whitex]

Yeah, I was just planning a trip recently for SF to LA (the original Tesla route) and the supercharger situation is completely different today than it was 10 years ago. It literally is like travelling with a gas car, given it is so packed, there is no worry even if you don't plan (just leave enough at the low end to reach between the two furthest stations in the middle area where they are spaced further apart).

I'm pretty sure you can't do that yet with a CCS car (you still need to plan).

Yes, but nowhere near the level of planning required 10 years ago with Tesla. Even 8 years ago I remember planning a coast to coast trip in 2015 - there was a supercharger gap along I-90 which required a stop at an RV park for an overnight charge. IIRC Tesla closed that gap in 2016 (it was "coming soon" since 2013 lol). February 2023 with CCS I planned my 3,500 mile trip home once already sitting in the car at the dealer, ready to roll. To be honest, even in an ICE car for such long trips I would plan the route ahead anyways, just not refueling stops. Practically for me, I don['t remember ever being in a Tesla or non-Tesla EV where I realized I was short on charge and had to look for an emergency charger. Even with my Teslas, I typically planned my driving/charging ahead, so my experience hasn't changed that much in that regard.

 

[whitex]

Yeah...not even close in certain areas. The more you are in a city center, the more broken the CCS network is. Garbage. I gave up up even using my EV6 for long trips. Just use the Model 3 for that now.

I think there is something to this. Most reports of broken CCS are from large city centers. One theory is that the CCS plugs are not very durable and heavy usage causes them to brake faster than maintenance can keep up replacing. The NACS connector might fix this (for one, no moving parts on the plug handle).

 

[whitex]

Interesting point of view, however a lot of the points made by him about the Rivian are also true of Teslas. For example:

1. Filling up at public stations can be expensive, Yep, same is true for Teslas - some superchargers charge $0.40 per KWh and a $1 per minute to go above 80%. Heck, in my travels I've come across a bunch of Model 3's and Y's charging at EA CCS because it was cheaper to buy the adapter and charge at CCS than to charge at a Tesla supercharger. The truth is, just like with a Tesla, you save money when charging at home. Side note, he did get some free charging along the way, not going to happen with gas car. All 4 of my Teslas as well as my current 2 CCS cars have had free DC charging (lifetime on Tesla, 3 years on non-Teslas) - not true for buying a Tesla today.
2. Complaining about 77KW charge rate. Well, all Tesla urban superchargers are only 75KW max. Last I had a Tesla, nearest supercharger >75KW was an hour away, so definitely not somewhere I would charge daily.

Notice he ragged on the rented Tesla just as well. He is right on one thing, EV's are not the fastest way to travel. If you are hell bent on covering as many miles as possible in 24 hours (or more if you have alternate drivers), you don't buy an EV, not even a Tesla, you buy a diesel car.

 

[3sr+buyer]

I think there is something to this. Most reports of broken CCS are from large city centers. One theory is that the CCS plugs are not very durable and heavy usage causes them to brake faster than maintenance can keep up replacing. The NACS connector might fix this (for one, no moving parts on the plug handle).

The CCS1 plug head is heavier, and may be attached to a heavier cable (due to greater length needing thicker wires and more liquid cooling). So it may sag more when plugged in, possibly resulting in poor connections or failures of the latches.

I have seen a Tesla Supercharger plug whose button to signal the car to open the charge port did not work, though it charged fine after opening the charge port by pressing on the charge port lid.

 

[Apprunner]

I think there is something to this. Most reports of broken CCS are from large city centers. One theory is that the CCS plugs are not very durable and heavy usage causes them to brake faster than maintenance can keep up replacing. The NACS connector might fix this (for one, no moving parts on the plug handle).

Tesla Superchargers are heavily maintained by the vast amount of Tesla service centers in most areas. Tesla is a much much much bigger company than EA and EVGO and their service personnel are miniscule compared to how many people Tesla employ in that department. NACS at EA will be just as poorly implemented as their current CCS network. Its not the CCS plug that drove companies to partner with Tesla...its the incompetence of EA and EVGO to maintain that network.

 

[whitex]

Tesla Superchargers are heavily maintained by the vast amount of Tesla service centers in most areas. Tesla is a much much much bigger company than EA and EVGO and their service personnel are miniscule compared to how many people Tesla employ in that department. NACS at EA will be just as poorly implemented as their current CCS network. Its not the CCS plug that drove companies to partner with Tesla...its the incompetence of EA and EVGO to maintain that network.

I disagree. There are number of ways the NACS connector is just a better design then CCS1, one of which is the locking mechanism, which is a moving part, lives on the handle vs. in the vehicle. This causes unnecessary down time when handles (with cables) have to be replaced. CCS2 fixed some of CCS1 issues but it's made for a 3 phase European market. Notice that Tesla has been using CCS2 connector in Europe, rather than NACS.

 

[tomitapani]

I disagree. There are number of ways the NACS connector is just a better design then CCS1, one of which is the locking mechanism, which is a moving part, lives on the handle vs. in the vehicle. This causes unnecessary down time when handles (with cables) have to be replaced. CCS2 fixed some of CCS1 issues but it's made for a 3 phase European market. Notice that Tesla has been using CCS2 connector in Europe, rather than NACS.

This is just purely anecdotal but I haven’t noticed problems with the CCS2 connector itself whether it is a Supercharger or any other charger. Although Tesla has much shorter cables and many other chargers has long and heavy cables that put some stress on cars charging port. Also I haven’t recognized any significant difference in reliability between superchargers and the others. But I live in a small country in Europe so maybe the stress on chargers isn’t that high compared to yours if all the others than Tesla are using EA-chargers?

 

[stopcrazypp]

This is just purely anecdotal but I haven’t noticed problems with the CCS2 connector itself whether it is a Supercharger or any other charger. Although Tesla has much shorter cables and many other chargers has long and heavy cables that put some stress on cars charging port. Also I haven’t recognized any significant difference in reliability between superchargers and the others. But I live in a small country in Europe so maybe the stress on chargers isn’t that high compared to yours if all the others than Tesla are using EA-chargers?

Tesla used Type 2 in Europe prior to switching to CCS2 so there is minimal difference between the two. Type 2 already had the latch pin on the vehicle side, just like NACS in the US does.

The issue in the US is CCS1 used the J1772 top latch which lives on the handle. That top latch is very prone to breaking. Also, due to the need to support 3 phase, Type 2 had a bigger diameter head, which makes CCS2 more balanced (while CCS1 is more bottom heavy and less stable, which has caused problems when the cable is heavy and pulls down, for example with Bolts at EA stations).

Some reference pictures:

A picture of NACS vs CCS1:

 

[Apprunner]

I disagree. There are number of ways the NACS connector is just a better design then CCS1, one of which is the locking mechanism, which is a moving part, lives on the handle vs. in the vehicle. This causes unnecessary down time when handles (with cables) have to be replaced. CCS2 fixed some of CCS1 issues but it's made for a 3 phase European market. Notice that Tesla has been using CCS2 connector in Europe, rather than NACS.

You are free to disagree but its not like the reliability of the chargers is soley dependent on the connector. Far from it. The EA stations that are down isn't because the connector was bad. It has a lot to do with the station itself most of the time or the cables or a myriad of other issues. You think NACS will solve those issues at all? Its just a connector and if EA replaces the connectors but uses the same stations, its still garbage. Most of the time, i can't charge because there is a software issue on the station or the whole charger is down. I've rarely ever encountered the connector being broken.

 

[SO16]

You are free to disagree but its not like the reliability of the chargers is soley dependent on the connector. Far from it. The EA stations that are down isn't because the connector was bad. It has a lot to do with the station itself most of the time or the cables or a myriad of other issues. You think NACS will solve those issues at all? Its just a connector and if EA replaces the connectors but uses the same stations, its still garbage. Most of the time, i can't charge because there is a software issue on the station or the whole charger is down. I've rarely ever encountered the connector being broken.

Having my mom try to plug in the CCS1 vs NACS is a massive difference. I know I’m glad North America is going with NACS.

 

[Apprunner]

Having my mom try to plug in the CCS1 vs NACS is a massive difference. I know I’m glad North America is going with NACS.

Not saying the NACS isn't better because it obviously is but the connector ain't solving the EA or EVGO issues they are currently having. NACS and Tesla Superchargers aren't the same things.

 

[SO16]

Not saying the NACS isn't better because it obviously is but the connector ain't solving the EA or EVGO issues they are currently having. NACS and Tesla Superchargers aren't the same things.

Very true. The plug does not solve reliability for EA. It helps since it’s one potentially less failure point due to the latch. But as you say, the chargers themselves and plugs are two different things.

 

[chinney]

I agree that NACS does not solve all the problems - not nearly - with non-Tesla charging providers. But the NACS plug is so much nicer to use, so there is that at least.

 

[gtgarner]

You are free to disagree but its not like the reliability of the chargers is soley dependent on the connector. Far from it. The EA stations that are down isn't because the connector was bad. It has a lot to do with the station itself most of the time or the cables or a myriad of other issues. You think NACS will solve those issues at all? Its just a connector and if EA replaces the connectors but uses the same stations, its still garbage. Most of the time, i can't charge because there is a software issue on the station or the whole charger is down. I've rarely ever encountered the connector being broken.

I don't understand the purpose of the disagree button in TMC.

 

[whitex]

You are free to disagree but its not like the reliability of the chargers is soley dependent on the connector. Far from it. The EA stations that are down isn't because the connector was bad. It has a lot to do with the station itself most of the time or the cables or a myriad of other issues. You think NACS will solve those issues at all? Its just a connector and if EA replaces the connectors but uses the same stations, its still garbage. Most of the time, i can't charge because there is a software issue on the station or the whole charger is down. I've rarely ever encountered the connector being broken.

Unless you see an OS crash screen on the station, you don't know why it is unavailable. Limited power typically is not a software issue. When screen says station is unavailable, it's been taken offline, could be due to bad connector.

I'm not saying CCS1 plug is the only issue, but seeing how it seems stations in middle of large cities and in California are the ones most often down, while the ones between cities (like the 29 consecutive ones I encountered on my trip) work fine, it would be consistent with mechanical issues due to heavy usage (i.e. the lightly used stations tend to be functional). Software typically does not wear out (barring some state which persists over reboot, like filling up local storage), most software issues can be fixed with a reboot, at least until the next hang. As a side note, every single time I've charged my non-Tesla at EA, it worked via plug-and-charge, so same like Tesla - just plug-in and wait. Same experience for my wife's non-Tesla.

 

[Apprunner]

Unless you see an OS crash screen on the station, you don't know why it is unavailable. Limited power typically is not a software issue. When screen says station is unavailable, it's been taken offline, could be due to bad connector.

I'm not saying CCS1 plug is the only issue, but seeing how it seems stations in middle of large cities and in California are the ones most often down, while the ones between cities (like the 29 consecutive ones I encountered on my trip) work fine, it would be consistent with mechanical issues due to heavy usage (i.e. the lightly used stations tend to be functional). Software typically does not wear out (barring some state which persists over reboot, like filling up local storage), most software issues can be fixed with a reboot, at least until the next hang. As a side note, every single time I've charged my non-Tesla at EA, it worked via plug-and-charge, so same like Tesla - just plug-in and wait. Same experience for my wife's non-Tesla.

Limited / no power can be a myriad of issues as I said and a good portion of the stations i've been to, the unit itself is just down. I doubt its connector issues. I've lived with a CCS car now for over a year and my experience has been that the connector itself isn't the issue many times. If you think EA will magically become more reliable with NACS, then I think you'll be disappointed when this transition happens.

 

[smogne41]

Limited / no power can be a myriad of issues as I said and a good portion of the stations i've been to, the unit itself is just down. I doubt its connector issues. I've lived with a CCS car now for over a year and my experience has been that the connector itself isn't the issue many times. If you think EA will magically become more reliable with NACS, then I think you'll be disappointed when this transition happens.

Sure, but it will help. My big hope though is Tesla implements the same policy in North America that they do in Europe. Include 3rd party chargers in the in-car nav UNLESS they are below their reliability threshold. Good for consumers, but also fantastic pressure on the 3rd party networks to get their reliability act together.