New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggles for charging from and discharging to grid from powerwalls]

[Shwood]

Thats up to you, and your finances, and its not really something anyone else can advise on.

True with regard to the decision making process; however, the info that feeds into that decision is factual, not opinion. For example, is the utility able to peer into your system to determine sources and destinations of energy, or simply can see use and export? That, I think, is quite relevant to this thread.
Once armed with that information, I agree that the decision is an individual one.

 

[Shwood]

The Tesla app lets you set buy/sell rates for each TOU period. So the optimal behavior with just two tiers depends on 4 numbers.

For example, say off peak you can buy a kWh for $0.20 and you get to sell one for $0.15, and on peak you can buy a kWh for $0.40 and sell one for $0.35. [Made up numbers.] You generate 1.1 kWh off-peak. You can (a) use it to offset $0.22 of energy you'd otherwise buy while it's being generated (b) sell it for $0.165 immediately (c) put it in a battery to displace a kWh you'd have to buy later during Peak for $0.40, or (d) put it in a battery to sell it later for $0.35.

With the above numbers, economically c > d > a > b. So you want the system to fill the battery from off-peak solar, if it can, and to use excess instantaneous solar to the extent possible. Then you want it to cover all your house loads during peak, and export everything else (while never drawing from the grid).

I think on residential the billing interval is 1 hour, and I think that the NBCs (the reason for a NEM2 difference in buy vs sell) are also only charged on that 1 hour net usage. So the above reckoning really only applies hour by hour, rather than instantaneously.

Cheers, Wayne

That makes sense if the discrepancy you are describing includes the transmission/distribution expenses… but they still can chew into the difference between off-peak buy vs at peak sell. In my case, the off peak buying price (including transmission and distribution expenses) actually exceeds the at peak sale price (without trans/distrib), so one would still lose money by charging off peak and selling at peak.
Of course, buying more off peak and using (ie buying less) at peak always makes sense.

 

[Shwood]

My point is that we tend to learn as we go, and then learn only as much as we want to.

SW

Thanks / helpful.
Similarly, I anticipate charging from grid only in winter, when it will mean using less peak (rather than exporting more during peak), and will have the added advantage of making sure my PW is charged for outages (which typically are longer here in winter AND include the disadvantage of snow-covered panels).
Additionally, in retrospect my initial question/thought process actually WAS missing something: net metering for me simply means export runs the meter backwards = less energy use = compensation for transmission/ distribution fees as well as supply/ generation fees (and, notably, the distrib/trans fees are unchanged regardless of TOU). That brings some clarity to the situation, with the notable exception of the undetermined calculations of the Tesla app.

 

[Mark Purcell]

I am aware of some PW owners in Australia and in Arizona who do charge from solar and the grid, but use a third party service to continuously monitor their PW and adjust the settings on the fly to optimize the behavior. We can hope the PW Cost Savings algorithm does grid charging well, but I think that is yet to be proven

Australian Powerwall2 user here.

I can confirm TOU settings do allow you to charge from grid (at 5 kW) during off-peak (low buy costs: I've seen 5 ¢/ kWh but has gone lower even negative) and also allow you to discharge to grid (at 5 kW) during peak (high sell price I've see up to $13/ kWh). I'm using HomeAssistant and some python scripts to change PW2 modes.

Apart from the obvious financial benefit this also helps the grid by driving additional consumption over the midday solar soak window and provides additional grid capacity during the evening peak demand window.

 

[Mark Purcell]

Had anyone outside the US received access to these advanced options?

I'm in Australia and manage to workaround grid charge/ discharge with some TOU settings, but it would be nice to have direct control.

My Powerwall2 is on version 22.9.1 bce98cad, and I'm on Android app Version 4.8.0-1025, which should be recent enough.

Just following up, I now have these advanced settings after upgrading to:
Android App Version 4.8.1-1032
PW2 firmware: 22.9.2 a54352e6

 

[Yonki]

Here in AZ, I haven't seen this option on the app yet. Though, I do see that my app updates like a week or so after the members here.

Forgive me if someone’s already mentioned this, but (at least on iPhones), if an update is “out there” but doesn’t show up on your phone, you can usually force an update if you know there’s an update in the wild:

• Search for the Tesla app in the App Store
• It will appear on the list with “Open” as the option
• Click on the app (don’t open the app; go to the App Store description of the app)
• On the app description page for the Tesla app, it will now say “Update” instead of “Open” if there’s an update available

This has worked for me with multiple different apps.

 

[skepticcyclist]

Forgive me if someone’s already mentioned this, but (at least on iPhones), if an update is “out there” but doesn’t show up on your phone, you can usually force an update if you know there’s an update in the wild:

• Search for the Tesla app in the App Store
• It will appear on the list with “Open” as the option
• Click on the app (don’t open the app; go to the App Store description of the app)
• On the app description page for the Tesla app, it will now say “Update” instead of “Open” if there’s an update available

This has worked for me with multiple different apps.

Yes, but this feature does not require an actual APP update. It will just appear within the same version.

 

[lucassaugen]

ADVANCE OPTIONS just showed up for me this morning.

However, under Grid Charging it says
"Grid Charging Restricted
This is due to utility or regional limitations, and is configured by your
installer."

 

[holeydonut]

I'm back on a 3-way phone call with Sunrun + Tesla + Myself... fingers crossed.

I guess the irony is the grid-charging is just a means to avoid peak usage. But since peak charging = evil to the ITC, the only solve using ESS is to generate credits by timing solar exports to shoulder/peak time.

Or, we could just install more solar panels... sigh. Honestly I'd prefer to add more solar and actually NEM out on a kWh basis instead of on a credits-basis.

I really hope by the time my kids are old enough to buy houses; off grid with renewables or community clean-DER is the standard instead of the exception.

 

[holeydonut]

FRAK, the Tesla Powerwall support rep said he was told by his supervisor that the extra features are only for people with the new Powerwall+. Anyone else with a normal Powerwall 2 that happens to have this feature is lucky and it's a fluke.

Lame.

 

[h2ofun]

Just talked to Tesla support about status of my grid charging. I guess they have having fun. The software folks are telling the support folks there is nothing wrong and my stuff would be working. But, nope, they can see it is not. So, fun to watch.

 

[jerroddotcom]

ADVANCE OPTIONS just showed up for me this morning.

However, under Grid Charging it says
"Grid Charging Restricted
This is due to utility or regional limitations, and is configured by your
installer."

I am seeing the same thing here in SDG&E territory.

 

[holeydonut]

Just talked to Tesla support about status of my grid charging. I guess they have having fun. The software folks are telling the support folks there is nothing wrong and my stuff would be working. But, nope, they can see it is not. So, fun to watch.

Maybe you and and I are the special snowflakes that need to get Powerwall+ before Tesla will allow us access to the cool club.

I still can't believe the Tesla guy swore up and down no Powerwall 2 owner should have the feature. If this is indicative of normal Tesla customer support, I don't see how anyone gets anything done. They just make stuff up over there. Like some crappy AI is programmed with a ton of excuses and just randomly spits stuff out.

 

[h2ofun]

I am seeing the same thing here in SDG&E territory.

You needs to call tesla to find out. Yep, certain installers cannot have their customers do. If you have a loan, another reason may not be
able to get. Or, at least so far in my case, this is a bug.

 

[skepticcyclist]

I am seeing the same thing here in SDG&E territory.

Do you both have the PowerWall+?

 

[Redhill_qik]

Maybe you and and I are the special snowflakes that need to get Powerwall+ before Tesla will allow us access to the cool club.

I still can't believe the Tesla guy swore up and down no Powerwall 2 owner should have the feature. If this is indicative of normal Tesla customer support, I don't see how anyone gets anything done. They just make stuff up over there. Like some crappy AI is programmed with a ton of excuses and just randomly spits stuff out.

Maybe it is the number of Powerwall2 units in the installation? I have two PW2 units and I have the option, but I have it turned off as it does not make any sense to use it IMHO due to the 10% loss. Both you and @h2ofun have more than two and they are worried that might be too taxing on the grid? The counterpoint is that you both can charge your PW2 array when Stormwatch is enabled.

Has your app updated to at least 4.8.1? You can find this by clicking the account icon and scrolling to the bottom.

 

[h2ofun]

Maybe it is the number of Powerwall2 units in the installation? I have two PW2 units and I have the option, but I have it turned off as it does not make any sense to use it IMHO due to the 10% loss. Both you and @h2ofun have more than two and they are worried that might be too taxing on the grid? The counterpoint is that you both can charge your PW2 array when Stormwatch is enabled.

Has your app updated to at least 4.8.1? You can find this by clicking the account icon and scrolling to the bottom.

So far nothing about number of PW's has come up. I have one GW with 2, other with 3. Shall see.

 

[Steve2498]

FRAK, the Tesla Powerwall support rep said he was told by his supervisor that the extra features are only for people with the new Powerwall+. Anyone else with a normal Powerwall 2 that happens to have this feature is lucky and it's a fluke.

Lame.

Not true. I have PowerWall 2s and have the charge from grid option.

 

[Vines]

Not true. I have PowerWall 2s and have the charge from grid option.

Agreed, I have (5) Powerwall 2 and have grid charging as an option.

 

[holeydonut]

Agreed, I have (5) Powerwall 2 and have grid charging as an option.

And you don't have the Powerwall+

I still am beside myself at Tesla's rep lying to me and Sunrun like this. That was a 3 way conference call and the Tesla rep was like "yes only Powerwall+. Powerwall 2 does not qualify".