New Tesla AP 2.0 Self Driving video

[tinm]

I tend to agree with ivolodin's sentiment. It's the 'false positives' which are the main concern to me and the prospect of non-autonomous cars following behind and not expecting the car in front to slow suddenly for no apparent reason.

In a way drivers behind Teslas have been at a disadvantage for years because of a quirk in how Teslas behave: the regen causes the rear brake lights to go on for the slightest slow-down of speed. If you aren't aware of this, try turning the rear video on at night on a road, and watch how often the brake lights go on while your foot is over the accelerator pedal. I've had drivers get clearly pissed thinking I'm deliberately braking to taunt them or something.

 

[Canuck]

Finally, I continue to be concerned that Tesla's release of these kinds of videos, while fascinating to techies and early adopters, could be misleading to mainstream average viewers not as fully versed in all things Tesla and the state of the autonomous vehicle technology art. I think it is rather irresponsible of Tesla to release videos that have no explanations, annotations, introductions, or other proper context-setting so the public in general not to mention the less clueful media absorb and interpret the video correctly. I can imagine people viewing this video thinking this is what a brand-new Tesla can do right now. I can even imagine a non-sophisticated new owner thinking this.

I'm glad Tesla released this video and I want to see a lot more and I don't want to have to read disclaimers before I watch them. I don't agree that we need to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator.

If you aren't aware of this, try turning the rear video on at night on a road, and watch how often the brake lights go on while your foot is over the accelerator pedal.

Just watch the brake lights of the toy car in your dash to see when they go on. I agree they come on way too easily but I guess Tesla is erring on the side of safety. I can drive to my cabin for hours on windy highway road without touching the brakes but anyone behind me, who doesn't know about Tesla's regren, would think I'm riding the brakes and that bothers me too.

 

[calisnow]

Finally, I continue to be concerned that Tesla's release of these kinds of videos, while fascinating to techies and early adopters, could be misleading to mainstream average viewers not as fully versed in all things Tesla and the state of the autonomous vehicle technology art. I think it is rather irresponsible of Tesla to release videos that have no explanations, annotations, introductions, or other proper context-setting so the public in general not to mention the less clueful media absorb and interpret the video correctly. I can imagine people viewing this video thinking this is what a brand-new Tesla can do right now. I can even imagine a non-sophisticated new owner thinking this.

Consumer Reports has a job with your name on it.

 

[AudubonB]

This video was of course selected to show a successful FSD drive, I'm sure there have been many that did not go as smoothly...

Did you just discover the reason so many CPOs have come on to the market?

 

[teldib]

What confuses me is the fact that the car seemed to know where it was going, despite not having a destination inputted into it's navigation on the main touch screen. Could this all have just been a programmed drive, and thus not a true representation of actual FSD?

 

[MP3Mike]

What confuses me is the fact that the car seemed to know where it was going, despite not having a destination inputted into it's navigation on the main touch screen. Could this all have just been a programmed drive, and thus not a true representation of actual FSD?

It didn't have instructions so it just wanted to return to the mothership. "Model X phone home..."

 

[Gregkeys]

What confuses me is the fact that the car seemed to know where it was going, despite not having a destination inputted into it's navigation on the main touch screen. Could this all have just been a programmed drive, and thus not a true representation of actual FSD?

Probably testing the calendar FSD option that picks you up and takes you to appointments on your calendar

 

[ecarfan]

Even more interesting to watch that drive in near real time instead of sped up. I recognize many of the streets on that route.

In a way drivers behind Teslas have been at a disadvantage for years because of a quirk in how Teslas behave: the regen causes the rear brake lights to go on for the slightest slow-down of speed. If you aren't aware of this, try turning the rear video on at night on a road, and watch how often the brake lights go on while your foot is over the accelerator pedal. I've had drivers get clearly pissed thinking I'm deliberately braking to taunt them or something.

This has been discussed several times on TMC over the years. I don't see it as a problem. I have checked my Model S several times over the years to see when the brake lights would come on without touching the brake pedal. It's easy to do at night on a dark road with the rear view camera up on the center display (no need to squint at the "toy car" in the drivers display). My experience, and I replicated this repeatedly, is that to get the brake lights to come on I had to remove all pressure from the accelerator pedal. Just backing off the pressure part way did not cause them to come on. Of course when you take all the pressure off the accelerator the car slows significantly so the brake lights should definitely come on even though you are not touching the brake pedal. I think the way the car works in that regard is very well thought out.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Interesting how at 2:21 the car does not recognize the STOP in the road yet comes to a stop even though there isn't a stop sign across from it. Likewise interesting it knows where it is going even though the NAV doesn't appear to be active. I don't know if the route is pre-programmed to a degree, but interesting nonetheless... Pretty cool that it can accomplish it in anyway at normal driving speeds either way.

Chris

 

[ecarfan]

Likewise interesting it knows where it is going even though the NAV doesn't appear to be active.

Keep in mind it is running development software and the nav route may not be visible for some reason. Also, the route has likely been precision mapped as Elon has mentioned in the past that the fleet is currently gathering that sort of data even when AP is not running. So no need for the blue route line to be shown on the nav display in a test vehicle.

 

[Canuck]

I have checked my Model S several times over the years to see when the brake lights would come on without touching the brake pedal. It's easy to do at night on a dark road with the rear view camera up on the center display (no need to squint at the "toy car" in the drivers display)

There's no need to squint, even with my poor eyesight. But don't look at the tail lights. Look at the center of the toy car and the red bar that lights up right across it. It's very noticeable. We used to be able to press the charging icon and see the car's tail lights but that's gone now.

 

[malcolm]

I'm sure that the people working on this are well aware that an additional road hazard is the estimated momentum of the vehicle travelling behind/likely stopping distance required by its human driver.

Since this will probably conflict with the indicated speed limit for the road, I agree that some sort of "robot is driving" indicator will be needed to alert the driver in the vehicle behind.

Eventually a visible characteristic of future AP traffic will be better vehicle separation/ vehicle speed ratios.

In the meantime I guess we'll all have to learn how to drive like the robots - or at least be aware of how the robot in front might behave - a bit like a novice driver - and modify our own driving to suit.

 

[brianman]

In the meantime I guess we'll all have to learn how to drive like the robots - or at least be aware of how the robot in front might behave - a bit like a novice driver - and modify our own driving to suit.

 

[schtig]

Bildschirmfoto 2016-11-20 Um 09.59.36

• schtig
• Nov 20, 2016

It's pretty obvious what is the problem with the stop next to the two jogging ladies.
The car is detecting the right turn of the street and the lady on the left. On a two dimensional view the object is recognized as in path and therefore blocking the road so the car has to stop.
I wonder how they are gona work on this problem. You see their system is still human trained on a two dimensional basis. It is just detecting the street and then an object on it, so the car has to stop. A human driver with two eyes has the advantage of a three dimensional view. The AP 2.0 or at least the AP 3.0 may solve this problem. The next task a human is doing is to look at the feets of the ladies and recognize that they are jogging on the sidewalk and the street is turning right in front / behind of them...

...would love to work on this problem!

 

[Matias]

I think human predicts, that that jogger is going to follow the curvature of the road. There's no absolute certainty on that, but our common sense tells that. One just needs to tell that to the AP.

"If there is an adult jogging or walking on the side of the road and you only see his/hers back, he/she will follow roads curvature ".

 

[wesley888]

For me in that situation, I would slow down a bit and (illegally) pass the double yellow line a few feet to keep some distant from the joggers. If the autonomous car do that, people in forums would throw a fit complaining the car dangerously swirl off it's own lane...

 

[InTheShadows]

I think human predicts, that that jogger is going to follow the curvature of the road. There's no absolute certainty on that, but our common sense tells that. One just needs to tell that to the AP.

"If there is an adult jogging or walking on the side of the road and you only see his/hers back, he/she will follow roads curvature ".

It was probably a panic stop not being able to predict what the joggers would do since they are on the wrong side of the road, running side by side, on a blind curve. Good thing it was a Tesla with AP and not a distracted driver. I've got thousands of miles logged running on roads and this is just common sense.

 

[Krugerrand]

For me in that situation, I would slow down a bit and (illegally) pass the double yellow line a few feet to keep some distant from the joggers. If the autonomous car do that, people in forums would throw a fit complaining the car dangerously swirl off it's own lane...

Totally agree. I'm for sure slowing down and hanging back a bit waiting to get partially around the curve in the road to check for oncoming traffic and then if clear I'm going way around the joggers. What if they trip and fall? What if the male jogger is just waiting for the opportunity to off her?

But seriously, the many people who would just buzz by this pair without slowing and giving extra room are the ones that need their car to have fully autonomous driving because they suck at driving themselves.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

For me in that situation, I would slow down a bit and (illegally) pass the double yellow line a few feet to keep some distant from the joggers. If the autonomous car do that, people in forums would throw a fit complaining the car dangerously swirl off it's own lane...

This is one of many situations where programming the AP will get very complex. I can only talk for the UK, but here it is acceptable to cross a double line in order to overtake a slow moving vehicle (travelling <10mph) as long as it is safe to do so. That last sentence can be understood by a human driver pretty quickly, but to programme those conditions into AP with different variations for different territories and define 'safe' in all situations is not going to be easy.

The problem for me still is the human driver following the car with AP and how rear-end collisions will be prevented while AP continues to be refined to the point where false positives are programmed out. It's one of the main reasons I'm not going to be optioning AP on my 3.

 

[Jupiter2]

In a way drivers behind Teslas have been at a disadvantage for years because of a quirk in how Teslas behave: the regen causes the rear brake lights to go on for the slightest slow-down of speed. If you aren't aware of this, try turning the rear video on at night on a road, and watch how often the brake lights go on while your foot is over the accelerator pedal. I've had drivers get clearly pissed thinking I'm deliberately braking to taunt them or something.

Once you get rear-ended by a decrepit 77 year old, you'll wish the brake lights were on more.