Newbie navigation question

[LukeT]

I’m on the cusp of ordering a Model S. Not pushed the button yet but probably will shortly.

You folks might be sick of this but on the various similar threads there's a handful of points I’m not sure I have an answer to…

My main one is on navigation – I read that the Tesla system runs on an old navigation engine and has some issues. I have used google maps for years in preference to in-built satnavs because it just gets the route right through giving me better information. Garmins/TomToms and the like I never took to either. I use Google on routes I know perfectly well just for traffic info and to change my route if necessary, which I like to do because it tends to get real-time journey time estimates right. I have never been a buyer of new or particularly fancy cars, so I may simply have not tried the good ones, but my experience of in-built satnav has been poor, and I was expecting Tesla to be at least based on real time data and therefore more akin to Google maps in its route choices. Then I read this:

Tesla Info: what to know before you consider buying a Tesla

“The sat nav, while looking impressive, is known to make a lot of mistakes. You can't pick the shortest or quickest route for instance and despite impressions, it is a cheap, old navigation engine over laying its route on a Google map, it is not a Google sat nav.”

There are 2019 points on there so I think this site is up to date, although it’s not clear whether it all is.

So I’d love to get a bit more honest and up-to-date info on this. Is the above statement, which is pretty damning for a user like me, still fairly accurate?

It’s late and my main other point was about charging so I think I’ll leave that to another time, since it won’t affect my buying decision…

Thanks for your help!

Luke

 

[theoceanwaves]

Hi Luke,

Tesla main navigation on the big screen uses live google maps (Sometimes you can see the grid squares loading up) and on the secondary screen above the steering wheel uses Garmin maps from the hard drive . In my experience both are good and the only thing that needs to be added is waypoints which it currently doesn’t have a function to do this. The nav also has live traffic and satellite view. There is a button to find the closest Superchargers and destination chargers. I find that the estimated time of arrival has always been accurate. I have seen some instances where the routing has taken owners a long way round a simple A to B but never experienced this myself. Have PM’d you if you have any other question regarding charging. Some new functionality allows you to send the route or any destination from your phone using “share” location from google maps or Apple maps. I’m sure the overall navigation and user interface will improve in future software updates and look and feel unlikely other manufacturers where you are stuck with the nav design.

 

[Dapimp]

As above. It’s a good system. Would be better if you could add waypoints and if it gave you a few options for your route. But it’s still an excellent system. You can also use google maps or IOS maps on your phone and select Share and the Tesla app to send your destination to the Tesla sat nav so it’s there when you get in the car which is neat. Use JON12830 referral code if you want 1000 miles of free supercharging unless you already have a referral code from someone else.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I have used google maps for years in preference to in-built satnavs

Yeah, I use Waze for same reasons. Tesla onboard navigation is far from ideal - I've never driven in a car where inbuilt SatNav was. I have Waze on phone for spoken directions, and Tesla dashboard on MUTE for map etc. Of course sometimes they disagree on route, in which case I go with Waze, it has far better live traffic rerouting (chances are good that Tesla Satnav then reroutes to match Waze of course ). yes, a bit pants to have a 100K car and a phone sliding around the console

There was talk, years ago, that Tesla would do a deal with Waze (or ANO) but they haven't. I suspect that Musk tried and didn't like whatever they wanted, so he is setting about building his own ... traffic information from other Tesla's ... bit like Waze ... but obviously Tesla go-alone strategy either needs a massive increase in fleet size, or some inducement for other car users to navigate-on-Tesla (ermmm ... Waze is free, why would they do that?)

Benefits of Tesla Satnav, although I'm sure they are obvious, are:

Massive map ... bit like the old days when you used to balance a paper map on your lap whilst driving, but without the risk

The "next turn" stuff in the main console is helpful - you get lane-arrows on Motorways and complicated junctions etc.

Change map to Satellite image, and zoom right in, when, for example, doing "last mile" in complicated destinations when some overview of what the surroundings look like would help

Tesla chooses a range-friendly route, which Waze has no interest in. Waze has taken me long-way-around-M25 before, to avoid massive traffic on the QE2 bridge. Gotta be sure you have Battery for a choice like that But newer Tesla SatNav traffic-rerouting can also conflict with your carefully planned battery SOC arrangements ... lack of waypoints in Tesla means you can't simulate that to see what SOC would be and whether Tesla would route you to Supercharger etc. (but you can use A Better Route Planner for that type of planning, it works on Tesla Browser, as well as your PC)

Navigate to "the front door" of Supercharger locations. Their placement in large motorway service stations could take you a while to find otherwise (once parked at one I then put my exact location into Waze)

Navigate via Supercharger - just put in Destination and, if needed, Tesla will route via appropriate Supercharger. As the number of Supercharger locations increase, and you might have Options A & B, then using your Noodle may be better - I now avoid all old Supercharger locations which only have a couple of stalls - far higher chance of them being busy (Tesla SatNav map has "Info Pin" on all Supercharger locations, which tell you current occupancy, along with facilities etc.)

Energy graph. This is the absolute biggie. Set Satnav to destination and then Energy Graph shows a graph (typically a straight line unless you have massive mountains to cross) of miles-travelled against battery percentage. It then plots an Actual line alongside, so you know if you are under/over (and shows predicted arrival SOC) and you can adjust speed etc. accordingly. I find it is extraordinarily accurate, although unexpected traffic / roadworks will gain some range.

Have PM’d you if you have any other question regarding charging

People sometimes send me questions by Private message ... no idea why, I always answer telling them to ask the question in open forum and send me a link if I don't answer, so that they get a critique (or not .. ) of any suggestion I might have.

Use referral code if you want 1000 miles of free supercharging

I'm probably just old and grumpy but I find 3-posts and begging-bowl distasteful. Every owner on here has a referral code .... put it in your Personal Details and then everyone that wants it can just help themselves.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Might be worth pondering the benefits of Waze (probably also true of Google Maps, but I have no experience of that)

Very accurate arrival time
(Can send a LINK to Friends and they can monitor actual arrival time)
Crowd-sourced Alerts for Speed Cameras, Broken down cars, Police etc. (If you want that on Big Screen there is TeslaWaze, but it doesn't do routing, only markers for Notifications in your area)
Accurate maps - I've had roads show up almost immediately after a new bypass opens. According to Tesla I was driving across a ploughed field! (Tesla maps update several times a year, I think, which is way better than every VW I owned [which was "never"], but it is a big download and only (I think?) comes over WiFi. Consequently I'm still on Tesla old map ...

 

[cezdoc]

I'm probably just old and grumpy but I find 3-posts and begging-bowl distasteful. Every owner on here has a referral code .... put it in your Personal Details and then everyone that wants it can just help themselves.

On the other hand & keeping an open mind @Dapimp can be assumed to be new to all of this and unaware of referral code etiquette on forums. But agreed it's frowned upon and may even be against site rules to tout your code, the rules are there to prevent opportunistic abuse of the scheme which would be all too easy with online forums.

 

[cezdoc]

My main one is on navigation – I read that the Tesla system runs on an old navigation engine and has some issues.
...

Tesla Info: what to know before you consider buying a Tesla

“The sat nav, while looking impressive, is known to make a lot of mistakes. You can't pick the shortest or quickest route for instance and despite impressions, it is a cheap, old navigation engine over laying its route on a Google map, it is not a Google sat nav.”

There are 2019 points on there so I think this site is up to date, although it’s not clear whether it all is.

Hi Luke, and welcome. Despite you correctly checking to see if the tesla-info site appears to be up-to-date I think in this case it's referring to an issue that was fixed by a map/navigation update in summer 2018. The older system suffered from a particular issue where it seemed to misinterpret some live traffic data as "road blocks" leading to crazy detours to avoid a section of road that was in fact completely clear.

The "new" (i.e. since ~June 2018) Nav is night-and-day better. First of all the phantom roadblock bug is fixed. Secondly I believe the visual traffic flow colours on the map is now based on the same data as the Nav system so you get consistent routing advice compared with the map display. And in addition all the turn-by-turn graphics in the driver's console are, in my opinion, much better. There is apparently a bug where the audio prompts mislabel roundabout exits (e.g. "take the second exit" when it should be the third/first) but that's not something that I've found to be a problem, particularly if you're aware of it (the visual turn indicators are fine).

You can still clip a phone to the dash as a backup - as mentioned above Waze may still have the edge - I used to do this but since last summer I've found the in-car navigation to be absolutely fine.

Good luck with the car and feel free to ask any other questions.
Also have a look at teslaownersgroup.co.uk if you haven't already - some great articles on there for new owners. The site is run by the UK Tesla owners' group which is very active and has some great initiatives for supporting new drivers, including regional mentoring etc.

 

[WannabeOwner]

against site rules to tout your code

There is a thread for publicising a referral code (I've read its the only "official place" where such things are permitted, but who knows?) Tesla Referral Program ... just add your referral code in a post at the end of the 400-odd pages of such things ...

and even a randomised referral tool that gives out referral codes at random: Randomized Referral!

Whether either of them achieve anything for the Punter I have no idea ...

 

[WannabeOwner]

"take the second exit"

FWIW I would like that Waze didn't say that. On a roundabout with multiple exits, some of which are entry-only, I don't find "take the Nth exit" helpful. Sometimes Waze says "Turn right at roundabout" ... which I prefer ... but my preference would be "Turn right at Roundabout, 3rd (or 4th ... or 1st ... whatever) exit". Might be that I have more difficulty with this than most as I'm a dyslexic ...

 

[cezdoc]

FWIW I would like that Waze didn't say that. On a roundabout with multiple exits, some of which are entry-only, I don't find "take the Nth exit" helpful. Sometimes Waze says "Turn right at roundabout" ... which I prefer ... but my preference would be "Turn right at Roundabout, 3rd (or 4th ... or 1st ... whatever) exit". Might be that I have more difficulty with this than most as I'm a dyslexic ...

Yeah I can identify with that. I settled on muting the spoken instructions and instead look at (a) the roundabout diagram on the turn-by-turn and (b) the exit destination name (helpful for matching directions up with road signs). I still get it wrong though, and more annoyingly it seems the closer I am to my destination, the more likely I am to make a wrong turn . Not great if I'm low on charge and looking for a charge point

Also knowing which lane to pick on approach: the "will left be left only, will right be right only?" game. Not a game to play at rush hour with locals who already know what's coming up! At least the new Nav clearly indicates which lanes to use at motorway intersections.

 

[ewoodrick]

Is it the best there is? Far from it. Is it the basic car Nav system? It is far ahead of all other cars.

It has traffic, it will reroute on traffic. I believe that it uses Google cloud to create navigation routes, if you have Internet connectivity (I don't think that it is available on the Model 3 SR or SR+ versions) and yes, I am US based, so there may be differences in UK.

 

[LukeT]

Thanks so much all for your comments.

I think consensus here is that it is true that the nav engine is not Google maps, but it probably is now better than all or nearly all other inbuilt systems. Is that fair? On that basis I'm likely to be happy enough with it.

For me the appearance of it is somewhat secondary on this point, even if the tesla interface is fantastic and is a major part of the car choice in other ways. Google maps is nothing to write home about on the appearance front but it does the job by getting the route right. I believe waze uses Google for route calculation and Google uses waze for crowd input live info. Hopefully one day tesla will tap into all this live data because it seems to me that's all that's missing.

I think my next step is to organise a loan car for 24 hours so I can try it out in my own normal use. It'll delay my order a few weeks but I'm looking forward to it. I have a few other questions to ask but on different subjects so probably best on a new thread...

 

[WannabeOwner]

I think consensus here is that it is true that the nav engine is not Google maps, but it probably is now better than all or nearly all other inbuilt systems. Is that fair? On that basis I'm likely to be happy enough with it

Yup, definitely "good enough".

 

[arg]

FWIW I would like that Waze didn't say that. On a roundabout with multiple exits, some of which are entry-only, I don't find "take the Nth exit" helpful. Sometimes Waze says "Turn right at roundabout" ... which I prefer ... but my preference would be "Turn right at Roundabout, 3rd (or 4th ... or 1st ... whatever) exit". Might be that I have more difficulty with this than most as I'm a dyslexic ...

I generally don't try hard to parse what the voice says to me - treating most voice prompts as if they had said "now's a good time to glance at the diagram on the dash which shows you where you actually need to go". Counting roundabout exits is always a bit of a lottery with many roundabouts having what look like exits that are off-ramps so not counted, or laybys or police parking spots or whatever.

For me, the not-always-perfect route choice is balanced by the unique advantage over almost all other satnavs that you've got the two screens so you can see what it's up to on the main screen while still having the driving directions on the small screen. Sometimes when it directs me to a detour off the motorway, I'll have been looking at the traffic on the big screen and the wigglyness of the alternative it wants me to take, and say "no, I don't fancy that, I think the traffic's clearing and I'll stick to the motorway", or alternatively it is still routing me into traffic that looks like it's getting worse and I will take the earlier exit and start driving the detour I want to take, which it will then pick up on and direct me the rest of the way. With conventional satnav (whether built-in or Waze etc) you're effectively forced to put your trust in it completely unless you have a passenger to look at alternatives for you.

 

[LukeT]

... For me, the not-always-perfect route choice is balanced by the unique advantage over almost all other satnavs that you've got the two screens so you can see what it's up to on the main screen while still having the driving directions on the small screen. Sometimes when it directs me to a detour off the motorway, I'll have been looking at the traffic on the big screen and the wigglyness of the alternative it wants me to take, and say "no, I don't fancy that, I think the traffic's clearing and I'll stick to the motorway", or alternatively it is still routing me into traffic that looks like it's getting worse and I will take the earlier exit and start driving the detour I want to take, which it will then pick up on and direct me the rest of the way. With conventional satnav (whether built-in or Waze etc) you're effectively forced to put your trust in it completely unless you have a passenger to look at alternatives for you.

Ah ha! This is the other big point about Satnav for me. If I'm going to ask a machine to choose my route I will always want to look at that route to sense check it before blindly following it. It seems to me that those who decry satnavs for taking them down a silly road don't think to do this, which I find an odd way to go about things. It wouldn't occur to me not to. Maybe I'm just not a trusting kind of person but I need to know the big picture is right before following the details and this dual screen approach is an ideal solution to that little problem.

Now really looking forward to my extended test drive which I think might give me a couple of days to play with it all.

 

[LukeT]

It does also occur to me that "navigate on autopilot" is only going to be good if you're happy with the route it presents. I assume there still isn't scope to drag a route or add a waypoint? Is this expected in a future update?

 

[12Pack]

Yup, definitely "good enough".

I'd go further to say that its by far the easiest built in system to enter a simple destination, start and then track your progress on the big screen. Great integration with my calendar where a simple tap gets you going on the Navigation in addition to the mentioned "send" from the phone.

 

[DJP31]

I assume there still isn't scope to drag a route or add a waypoint? Is this expected in a future update?

According to Elon all sorts of additional functionality is due "soon". It is basic but very good IMO at what it does and routes/eta/traffic rerouting are pretty much as good as Waze (source: lots of users on the FB group).

 

[WannabeOwner]

I'd go further to say that its by far the easiest built in system to enter a simple destination, start and then track your progress on the big screen. Great integration with my calendar where a simple tap gets you going on the Navigation in addition to the mentioned "send" from the phone

Yes, good points. With internet connection you can type in anything as a destination ... the name of a restaurant, for example, Gone are the days where you had to, already, know the postcode. But that's the same (for me) on Waze

The screen moves / adjusts in a very sensible / intuitive fashion. As your journey progresses the view changes periodically to show "remainder". If on "head up" view it zooms in/out according to speed. Yes, well thought through

I'd forgotten about integration with calendar. Get into car, get credit card out and pay for FSD, then car drives you to each meeting you have that day ... the ability to navigate to the contact linked to a calendar entry (in my phone) is pretty cool

"now's a good time to glance at the diagram on the dash which shows you where you actually need to go"

In terms of roundabouts, I can't see the circle-with-exit-number-in-it, and indication of exit direction, without my reading glasses on, so "exit 3" is all I have, whereas "Turn right, exit three" would at least tell me the direction I need to take. I'd prefer a nice large roundabout symbol with exit arrow

If I'm going to ask a machine to choose my route I will always want to look at that route to sense check it before blindly following it

I blindly follow Waze (although I do check that its idea of Destination matches mine ). Its pretty much impossible to figure out if my preferred route is significantly slower than the alternative being suggested, although nowadays Waze does have a message "This is X minutes faster than A14/A428" so if that was my preferred route I have the info I need.

On one occasion, in London, Waze was offering me three-sides-of-a-square; I ignored it and carried on and it immediately added 20 minutes to my arrival time, which turned out to be spot on I've followed its alternative routes blindly since, but I do have an eye on miles, in case a detour is going to run me out of range. Waze takes me through housing estates and all sorts, in order to escape rush hour traffic in town. Of course I have no idea if any other route might have been faster, and I'm clearly not paying a premium to be given a unique route not also offered to all other Waze users, so they may clog my diversion ... but for all the reviewing I have been able to do, I have yet to find a re-route that hasn't been worthwhile.

 

[LukeT]

.... although I do check that its idea of Destination matches mine ...

Fair point. I do the same with Google. I guess it's more failing to do that than to scrutinise the detail that gets people in trouble but still there can be a significant difference between a route picked on live data and one based on a road class algorithm. For example when I plot my normal route across the country on A Better Route Planner it fails to pick up the route Google does which is both quicker and a straighter/easier drive, having tried both. There is another way which is quicker than the route planner way and does for me if my normal one has significant traffic, but it's also not picked up. I'm interested to see whether tesla does a bit better than this.

What tesla appears to do better than anyone else, because it does a slightly different job, is route choice based on resources. ie factoring in charging, so energy use, as well as time. Irony here is that when your resource is the direct and inefficient burning of a fossil fuel it's generally more important. I have often noted a nav system pick a route that's something like 3 minutes quicker but 10 miles further, therefore requiring lower mpg (because higher speed) over more miles to achieve a time saving of bugger all.