TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Nissan Leaf II

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by voyager, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. voyager

    voyager Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Will feature a 60 kWh battery pack, with a 300 mile range. Looks way better than the old dufus, and more daring than the Chevy Bolt IMO.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    • Like x 1
  2. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,891
    Location:
    florida.
    have they solved their degradation issues?
     
  3. cronosx

    cronosx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    Italy
    maybe.. but did you notice the steering wheel? they are just sayng "see? it's cool, but you'll never see it in the next 8 years"
     
    • Like x 1
  4. YBT

    YBT Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Australia
    300 miles? Do you have a source for that?

    My understanding is they will be aiming for a 60kW pack - which should equate to a 200 mile range.
     
  5. AUSinator

    AUSinator Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    Australia
    Only a concept and not the Nisan leaf 2. The real Nisan leaf 2 will look completely different however may take some inspiration from this car and that's all.
     
  6. purplewalt

    purplewalt Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Door handles?
    Rear hatch/access?
    Amount of storage in rear, or any in the frunk?
    Alpha model (?) or is this the street-ready production model?
    When is it coming to market?

    If this Leaf has anything over 200 mile range, and can get to market near same time as the Bolt, and is in same price neighborhood, well Bolt is gonna have major competition.

    If Nissan decides to develop and build out a fast-charging network, might give Model 3 a run for the gold too.
     
  7. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    San Diego
    Still no compelling reason to purchase over a Model3 - even if all these Nissan fantasies come true, it's still at best equal in specs to the small Tesla. Nissan has had burned it's leaf owners w primitive battery tech and awful customer service. Why would anyone choose this over a model3?
     
  8. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Location:
    Minnesota
    60 kWh ≠ 300 miles EPA.

    Looking forward to the unveiling of Leaf 2.0, and would be great if Nissan could stop dragging their feet.
     
    • Like x 3
  9. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,123
    That isn't the new LEAF, it's a concept car. The new LEAF won't get anywhere near 300 miles EPA range. The real mystery is what kind of thermal management the new LEAF pack will
    have.
     
    • Like x 3
  10. tftf

    tftf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    759
    Location:
    Hop Sing Laundry
    What the OP was posting is just the Nissan IDS concept from October 2015 which gives some hints about the Leaf 2, but nothing more:

    Nissan IDS Concept:

    Of course Nissan will wait as as long as possible to introduce it to keep selling the current 2016 30 kWh LEAF. But all signs point to 2017-2018.

    PS: And it’s certainly not a coincidence that Chademo recently announced a Chademo 2.0 version up to 150kW in the same timeframe:

    http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016-06-01_High_power_CHAdeMO.pdf

    Nissan / Mitsubishi remain the main supporters for the standard and the new LEAF with the rumored 60 kWh battery will need that.
     
  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,344
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Nissan finally admits that a 200-plus mile Leaf electric vehicle is coming. We've been waiting for this.

    Quote from the article:
    "...we finally got confirmation that the next-gen Leaf will indeed have a 60-kWh pack. Kazuo Yajima, Nissan's global director of EV and HEV engineering, told AutoblogGreen that "It's coming," referring to a 60-kWh Leaf. "I'm sorry I cannot say when," he said. We spoke with Yajima at EVS29, a large electric vehicle symposium happening this week in Montreal, Canada.
    Yajima said that Nissan is proud to be showing off its latest battery technology at EVS29, as pictured above. He said that with more than double the capacity of the 24-kWh battery in the current Leaf, the 60-kWh pack in the next Leaf will be able to have more than twice the driving range of today's model, or something like 210-220 miles, depending on conditions and which test you're using. Whatever the exact number ends up being, the important part is that Nissan is not standing still when it comes to challenging the upcoming Chevy Bolt EV or Tesla Model 3. "In the near future, I believe, we can produce an electric vehicle that doesn't have any driving range problem," he said.
    -------------------------------------------------

    So apparently, at some point in the future, the Leaf will have a 60kW pack and go over 200 miles on a charge.

    And then the Leaf owner on a road trip will have to find a DC charger that is working and not occupied unless they have stopped for the day and are able to charge all night.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,891
    Location:
    florida.
    and therein lies the problem, even with a 200 mile range ( a good thing) it is still not a road trip car. until chademos become more available and reliable the car IMHO is not a road trip car.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,344
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Agreed that a 200 mile Leaf is not a road trip car, but the Leaf does become a much more viable EV with broader appeal. And that's a good thing.

    It still would not be a direct Model 3 competitor, but certainly some potential buyers would cross shop the two cars.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. gene

    gene Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Yep the more I think about it, without Supercharging capability, the 200 mile EV's really aren't worth much more than the 85 mile cars. They are still just city cars.
     
    • Like x 2
  15. spottyq

    spottyq Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Belgium
    Couldn't agree more with this. A 200-mile EV without supercharger(-equivalent) network only enables a few more trips per year over what an 85-mile EV does. But you have to pay for and transport that battery everywhere you go.
     
  16. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,891
    Location:
    florida.
    let's take it easy on the leaf, while I agree that it is only a city car, if it had a 200 mile range I'd still have mine because it would make a great second car. the current 85 mile or so range wasn't enough range for me or for the people who live outside of dense urban areas. a 200 mile range makes it a viable option for many people. in reality most people rarely take long distance road trips, I know more than a few tesla owners who have never used a SpC.
    at the end of the day, the more people driving EVs rather than ICE mobiles the better.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. spottyq

    spottyq Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Belgium
    #17 spottyq, Jul 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
    I have nothing against the range of the Leaf; what I meant is that an 85-mile car is already good for a good part of the mileage the average Joe drives BUT as a second car. Same thing can be said for a 200-mile EV without good charging network; you'll still need an other solution for these odd longer drives.

    What I'm saying is that they aren't much trips longer than 85 mile **and** shorter than 200.

    Whereas a 200-mile EV with a supercharger network is perfectly fine as the only car (if you're willing to put up with 10-20% longer time door-to-door versus an ICE.)

    I also know a Tesla owner who has never used a SpC, but they have a gas car they use for longer trips.

    [Edit :] I'll also add that, as you say, the more people driving EV rather than ICE the better. If it takes a 200-mile EV to convince people to not have range anxiety, than so be it !
     
  18. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,344
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Right now, in the vast majority of the US and in Western Europe (with the exception of Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and souther Italy) a Tesla with Supercharging is suitable as a primary passenger vehicle for the vast majority of car owners.

    A 200 mile range EV without a usable DC fast charging network (like the coming GM Bolt and maybe a future Leaf) is probably acceptable as a primary vehicle for less than half the car buying population.

    A sub-100 mile range EV is probably suitable as a primary vehicle only for a small fraction of the car buying population.

    I am not willing to assign even a range of percentages to any of those categories because I just don't have the necessary data. My estimates are purely seat-of-the-pants guesses.
     
  19. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    San Diego
    A 200 mile Nissan Leaf is a 150 mile Nissan Leaf after one year, 120 miles after 2 years, and <100 miles after 3 years.
    No thanks
     
    • Funny x 3
    • Dislike x 2
  20. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,349
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    The 200 mile EVs without supercharging sound a lot like a Roadster to me, at least in those 2 dimensions (range and charging speed). The difference between an 85 mile EV and a 200 mile EV is huge. Neither is a road trip car (though I've road tripped in my Roadster, and met people road tripping in their Leafs; I grant that doesn't make them road trip cars :)).

    The 200 mile EV though, can readily handle a variety of day trip adventures that the 85 mile EV can't think about. Most importantly, the 200 mile EV provides the extra range that allows for the battery to degrade over time, that allows for (relatively) very high energy usage in the winter, between driving in snow / rain, and running the heater on high, and otherwise provides the mental freedom that enables the car to be sufficiently useful to be seriously considered by a much wider audience.

    I agree that the 200 mile EV doesn't solve all of the problems. But characterizing them as being barely better than the 85 mile EV, or barely expanding the market for EV's is a mischaracterization.


    The problem I see with the 200 mile EV's that are coming isn't that they'll barely expand the market because of the range they will be offering - they will barely expand the market because they will barely be produced. And there is another market entrant that looks like it will provide dramatically more functionality at nearly the same price, that will compete very effectively against them.

    If the competition were S/X and didn't include Model 3, then the 200 mile EVs without supercharging would be selling everything they could make (more than currently expected - less than Model 3 demand has so far indicated). That's a much bigger market than exists today.
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page