Nissan Leaf

[dhanson865]

You should be aware that 2014 and newer leafs have a different battery chemistry that improves on life of battery in extreme hot temperatures. All replacement batteries will have this chemistry so if you run into increased degradation and get warranty replacement will be new chemistry. I took advantage of rapid depreciation too. Country views battery cars as toxic so rapid price decrease. It will decrease your depreciation and price if you get a used one

You should be aware that 2015 and newer leafs have a different battery chemistry that improves on life of battery in extreme hot temperatures according to Nissan.

I'm not sure why you picked 2014 for that.

If you don't believe me check out Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement - My Nissan Leaf Forum where Brian Brockman of Nissan first announced the chemistry change. Anything you saw about 2013 or 2014 packs before that was wishful thinking.

We are now seeing degradation in 2013 packs this summer and will have a stronger data set next summer. It'll be two more summers to have strong data on the 2014 packs and three more summers to have any data on 2015 packs. So if you want you have time to pick any article you want and argue that source X said 2013 and source Y said 2014.

But no matter what source you choose, Nissan claims the chemistry change helps with the heat issue. There still is no active cooling on the Leaf and we won't know for several years if their change in chemistry helped as much as they wanted it to. Check http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss in 2018 and see if it holds up.

 

[Chickenlittle]

My 2011 with 30k miles has lost three bars and I'm debating what to do. I'd like to keep the car but I doubt I will be able to get a free replacement battery by the time the warranty expires. I plan to keep the car for sometime since it's in excellent condition. Should I upgrade the battery now or wait?

1.
I have read that 2011 cars will need 250 dollar kit to accept new battery
2.
I was told but not sure whether to believe it that if one of three cells go bad, it can be replaced independent of others. I don't know whether to believe that but if give a bit of range boost? I have heard a lot of bs from sales people (one said you could use tesla superchargers on leaf)
3.
if you like the car enough you could sell yours and get a 2013. In my searches the SL trim 2013 are about 5000 dollars more. That is cheaper than a new battery and you would extend your warantee.

Good luck

 

[dhanson865]

1.
I have read that 2011 cars will need 250 dollar kit to accept new battery
2.
I was told but not sure whether to believe it that if one of three cells go bad, it can be replaced independent of others. I don't know whether to believe that but if give a bit of range boost? I have heard a lot of bs from sales people (one said you could use tesla superchargers on leaf)
3.
if you like the car enough you could sell yours and get a 2013. In my searches the SL trim 2013 are about 5000 dollars more. That is cheaper than a new battery and you would extend your warranty.

Good luck

1. close enough, but the cost of the adapter kit is minimal compared to the cost of the pack.

2. there are 96 pairs of cells (192 total) not 3. If one goes bad completely Nissan will replace it under warranty (the longer drive train warranty, not the shorter degradation warranty). If one degrades more than the rest but isn't bad they won't and it isn't worth the cost or trouble to replace it. The range won't change noticeably.

 

[stopcrazypp]

1. close enough, but the cost of the adapter kit is minimal compared to the cost of the pack.

2. there are 96 pairs of cells (192 total) not 3. If one goes bad completely Nissan will replace it under warranty (the longer drive train warranty, not the shorter degradation warranty). If one degrades more than the rest but isn't bad they won't and it isn't worth the cost or trouble to replace it. The range won't change noticeably.

Leaf pack is made up of 48 modules. Each module has four cells, laid out with 2 in series and 2 parallel. Total 192 cells. The smallest unit they can replace is likely at the module level. That's probably what the rep meant.
http://www.eco-aesc-lb.com/en/product/liion_ev/

 

[dhanson865]

Leaf pack is made up of 48 modules. Each module has four cells, laid out with 2 in series and 2 parallel. Total 192 cells. The smallest unit they can replace is likely at the module level. That's probably what the rep meant.
http://www.eco-aesc-lb.com/en/product/liion_ev/

and to further the explanation the 48 modules still give visibility to 96 pairs of cells as those are what the BMS monitors for voltages (within each module 2 pairs of cells share a voltage and they report as one, meaning two pairs report from within each module).

Like this

from a user that got that pack replaced under capacity warranty after 48 months and 48,168 miles or so of ownership (though this screenshot is from before the 4th bar dropped).

While it is possible for a cell, pair of cells, module or pack to fail, usually it just degrades relatively evenly and no subunit swaps help because the entire pack is about the same.

 

[Trev Page]

Just wanted to report that I went to my local Nissan dealer to have a look at a Leaf as possible replacement for my wife's old VW Golf. They don't sell it despite it being on their website.

BMW i3, same story, you have to go a special authorized i3 dealer to look at the car.

Man, that's a messed up system and I can't think past this is just so that their EVs don't kill their ICE business. Shame.

- - - Updated - - -

I would call that "wild speculation". I seriously doubt that will happen. Nissan is wedded to CHAdeMO.

Not only that but their battery packs would need to the completely redesigned to handle the Supercharger system. You can't just put a Tesla connector onto any EV and expect it to work. The pack has to be able to communicate *and* handle the loads.

 

[EVenthusiast]

Just wanted to report that I went to my local Nissan dealer to have a look at a Leaf as possible replacement for my wife's old VW Golf. They don't sell it despite it being on their website.

FYI, the 2016, which supposedly is in production already, and is rumored to go on sale in a month, will offer more range (this is not the next gen yet).

 

[davewill]

Just wanted to report that I went to my local Nissan dealer to have a look at a Leaf as possible replacement for my wife's old VW Golf. They don't sell it despite it being on their website.

BMW i3, same story, you have to go a special authorized i3 dealer to look at the car.

Man, that's a messed up system and I can't think past this is just so that their EVs don't kill their ICE business. Shame.

The LEAF dealers have to pony up for charging stations, service equipment, and technician training. Some dealers just don't want to deal with it.

Not only that but their battery packs would need to the completely redesigned to handle the Supercharger system. You can't just put a Tesla connector onto any EV and expect it to work. The pack has to be able to communicate *and* handle the loads.

Not so. It would just require electronics to talk with the Supercharger. It could be done as an adapter similar to Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter. The voltage and charging rate is specified by the car, and can be adjusted to whatever the battery needs. A LEAF would just charge a slower rate than a Tesla (because the battery is smaller). It won't be done, of course.

 

[mpt]

It's official, 2016 LEAF gets 30kWh battery and EPA 107mile rating, news released this morning: OFFICIAL: 2016 Nissan LEAF SV, SL Electric Cars to Get 30 kWh Battery For 107 Miles EPA Range | Transport Evolved

 

[renim]

and the not so official source
2016 LEAF Specifications - My Nissan Leaf Forum

interestingly, after the $7,500 rebate
LEAF S-24 is $896/kWh including car
LEAF 30kWh is $873/kWh inc car
Tesla S-70 (RWD) is $892/kWh inc car

 

[andrewket]

Did they increase the charging rate?

 

[renim]

Did they increase the charging rate?

first impression is that they reduced the taper.

 

[andrewket]

first impression is that they reduced the taper.

On DC charging. I'm more concerned with the on-board charger. I need the ability to do a fast turn-around at home midday.

Edit: still 6.6kW. 6 hours to charge empty to full. Not fast enough for me.

 

[dpeilow]

Also 155 miles on the European fantasy rating.

 

[mpt]

and the not so official source
2016 LEAF Specifications - My Nissan Leaf Forum

...Ah yes indeed, but they don't get a slap for jumping an embargo

- - - Updated - - -

Also 155 miles on the European fantasy rating.

155 pottering around town and up into the country never exceeding 45mph, in spring/autumn (UK Summer, Wednesday 1 July

 

[ggies07]

It's official, 2016 LEAF gets 30kWh battery and EPA 107mile rating, news released this morning: OFFICIAL: 2016 Nissan LEAF SV, SL Electric Cars to Get 30 kWh Battery For 107 Miles EPA Range | Transport Evolved

So is this "real world" range of over 100? They've been promoting the LEAF on their website having over 100 miles since the beginning. If it's true miles, then we are getting somewhere and I would consider, but if it still losses miles during the winter and summer, not good.

 

[mpt]

...but if it still losses miles during the winter and summer, not good.

It's going to perform like a regular EV, in winter, the range will fall to 90miles and if you turn on the heat in sub-zero temperatures, that's going to fall to 80 IMO. I'm basing that on experience with the ActiveE - a little bigger battery, heavier car and no heat pump, something that has a great effect on the range of the i3. Compared to the first-gen Leaf that would fall below 60, this extra capacity is a great improvement and has just opened up the LEAF to, probably millions of drivers that might now take the plunge.

 

[KJD]

and the not so official source
2016 LEAF Specifications - My Nissan Leaf Forum

interestingly, after the $7,500 rebate
LEAF S-24 is $896/kWh including car
LEAF 30kWh is $873/kWh inc car
Tesla S-70 (RWD) is $892/kWh inc car

And the Tesla 90D (AWD) that I really want as my next car is 894/kWh.
OK not bad. Thanks for the thought process renim.

 

[EVenthusiast]

So is this "real world" range of over 100? They've been promoting the LEAF on their website having over 100 miles since the beginning. If it's true miles, then we are getting somewhere and I would consider, but if it still losses miles during the winter and summer, not good.

The LEAF's EPA rating has never been over 100 iirc, which is the one that matters. The European & Japanese testing processes sure, but we all know they are overly optimistic. Nissan did use the '100' number initially, and there are plenty of people who can hit that # (I'm not one of them), but definitely not realistic. Anyways, this is real 107 EPA miles.

But your winter/summer statement doesn't make sense. Every vehicle loses 'range' during the colder weather (yes, even dino-juice based vehicles).

 

[ggies07]

It's going to perform like a regular EV, in winter, the range will fall to 90miles and if you turn on the heat in sub-zero temperatures, that's going to fall to 80 IMO. I'm basing that on experience with the ActiveE - a little bigger battery, heavier car and no heat pump, something that has a great effect on the range of the i3. Compared to the first-gen Leaf that would fall below 60, this extra capacity is a great improvement and has just opened up the LEAF to, probably millions of drivers that might now take the plunge.

The LEAF's EPA rating has never been over 100 iirc, which is the one that matters. The European & Japanese testing processes sure, but we all know they are overly optimistic. Nissan did use the '100' number initially, and there are plenty of people who can hit that # (I'm not one of them), but definitely not realistic. Anyways, this is real 107 EPA miles.

But your winter/summer statement doesn't make sense. Every vehicle loses 'range' during the colder weather (yes, even dino-juice based vehicles).

Thanks guys. I just meant if the true range was still not over 100 coupled with loss of range due to extreme temps, that would not be good. But around 90 with extreme temps would work for me since I have a 63 mile round trip to work and back home.

I still don't understand their pricing though:

The mid-range Nissan LEAF SV, including the larger 30 kWh, 107-mile battery pack, will retail from $34,000 before incentives, while the high-end 2016 LEAF SL tips the scales at $36,790 before incentives.

Why would someone buy an EV with a little over 100 miles of range when they could spend another $2,000 and get the Model 3 with at least 200 miles? I would think Nissan would have lower prices as they will not be able to compete car to car.....