Also seems to be selling pretty decently here in Hawaii. Seems like every week, I'm running into a new Leaf with temporary plates.
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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Over promised on range, battery life is questionable, styling is weak, efficiency is not high enough, dealers and corporate don't seem to be treating customers well, and price is too high for what you get. I think that sums it up. Nissan needs a redesign, now, if they want to increase sales volume.
I love my Leaf. For our purposes (to and from work, out to dinner or a movie, over to a friend's house, etc) it works. There isn't another EV out there that is comparable. Granted, we've only had it 3 weeks, so I may just be in the honeymoon phase, but as long as nothing breaks, I think it delivered what it set out to. Even the styling works for me. It's recognizable- looks modern, looks EV.
I have had my LEAF for 20 months (17K miles) and still find it a great "commuter appliance".
(For me at least), comfortable, reliable, cheap to operate, feature filled (at the price point.)
Yeah, I wish it looked a bit better, and offered sportier performance, but I continue to appreciate many other qualities of the vehicle.
(For me at least), comfortable, reliable, cheap to operate, feature filled (at the price point.)
Yeah, I wish it looked a bit better, and offered sportier performance, but I continue to appreciate many other qualities of the vehicle.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
To be clear I know there are many very happy LEAF owners, I'm just saying for what Nissan wants it to be it has to be better, and it has to happen sooner rather than later.
Early adoption of EVs seems to be a largely coastal phenomenon. In (generally more) conservative middle America, it's a bit more of a tough sell. Also consider the larger distances to travel, and the not-insignificant matter of harshly cold winters. Not the best setting for a battery-powered car.
Having said that, I have seen a few Leafs around, but I see WAY more Volts, which is representative of their respective sales volumes. Plus the above factors I mentioned make the Volt a more user-friendly choice around here.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
One thing that points out the issue with the LEAF is this area is pretty much an ideal target market for a LEAF, and I have not seen one outside of a dealer. This is a town where the Prius rules. For a small city I think we might have one of the highest number of Prius's per person. Part of the problem is that the local dealer didn't even have a LEAF to sell until maybe the middle of this year, but I think the liberal leaning environmentally conscious populace centered around two colleges should be a prime market. Something critical is missing from the LEAF puzzle if it's not selling here.
The cold-weather range sucks. In freezing temps it's 50 miles at best and that's just not enough for most people. Really need another 30% more range at the same price to really boost sales so that typical driving gets close to 100 miles / charge and in bad conditions you get at least 65 miles.
I think parts of the Midwest have a stronger "buy American" mantra that would tilt things more in favor of GM over Nissan regardless of product attributes.
sp4rk
Banned
I am told the Leaf $7,500 tax credit is no longer. They must have delivered 15,000 of them.
Given that Tesla has over 15,000 reservations, wonder how close they are to their threshold?
Given that Tesla has over 15,000 reservations, wonder how close they are to their threshold?
Part of that is the climate control system in the 2011 & 2012 models. It uses an inefficient system that draws a lot of power, and is complicated to figure out how to turn off the heat. So even if you wear a jacket and gloves, you may inadvertently be running the heating system cutting down your range.
Most people aren't used to the idea that use of cabin heat reduces vehicle range.
I leave my thermostat set to the lowest setting to keep the heat off. But I live in an area with such mild climates that it isn't much of a limitation for me.
The 2013 model is supposed to switch to a "heat pump" system that has less range reduction in cold temps.
sp4rk
Banned
I'm not finding that ... it's about 32 avg. here now and I still get 75 miles round trip. With the heater on 2/3rd the time. And the butt warmer all the time.
No different that air on in the summer? Am I just lucky?
Huh? Where did you get 15,000? I thought it was 200,000...
Federal Tax Credit for Electric Vehicles Purchased in or after 2010
Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and IRC 30D)
Looks like the IRS hasn't updated this chart in a while:
IRC 30D : Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit Quarterly Sales
IRS30D - Nissan North America
IRS30D - Tesla
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sp4rk
Banned
Sorry, TEG, I assumed, based on rectal arithmetic. 
Dealer mentioned 15k and I had not stopped to verify it but he did confirm that indeed the $7,500 is no longer available for Leaf's.
How many do you think have shipped?
I am driving a 2012 and, yes I heard 2013 is supposed to be maybe be marginally better.
Dealer mentioned 15k and I had not stopped to verify it but he did confirm that indeed the $7,500 is no longer available for Leaf's.
How many do you think have shipped?
I am driving a 2012 and, yes I heard 2013 is supposed to be maybe be marginally better.
When he said the $7500 was not available was that with regards to a lease or purchase discussion?
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Not sure... .more than 20K, less than 50K...? Somewhere in that wide range. Still much less than the 200K total to start credit phase out.
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Not sure... .more than 20K, less than 50K...? Somewhere in that wide range. Still much less than the 200K total to start credit phase out.
Dealer salespeople aren't always the most informed. Perhaps they were trying to come up with a story to justify why they want their next customer to pay a higher price than the ones they sold last week?
Apart from the $7500 fed tax credit there have been some mysterious end of model year manufacturer -> dealer incentives to move remaining 2012 LEAFs quickly. Perhaps that was the expiring credit to which he was referring. Some speculated that they may only have done this in certain markets, such as California, to meet a number of CARB credits they wish to accrue this year.
Nissan may also want to be able to say that they sold some # of LEAFs in 2012, so they could adjust dealer incentives accordingly to meet overall sales goals.
Apart from the $7500 fed tax credit there have been some mysterious end of model year manufacturer -> dealer incentives to move remaining 2012 LEAFs quickly. Perhaps that was the expiring credit to which he was referring. Some speculated that they may only have done this in certain markets, such as California, to meet a number of CARB credits they wish to accrue this year.
Nissan may also want to be able to say that they sold some # of LEAFs in 2012, so they could adjust dealer incentives accordingly to meet overall sales goals.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Nissan has sold around 40K vehicles worldwide, so maybe 20K in the US. Sounds as if that dealer doesn't know what he's talking about or is BSing.
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