Nissan Leaf

[sp4rk]

Ok, I think this explains it ...

Ok, had it explained ...

The (Nissan) Federal $7.5 is still very much in force.

What he was referring to was a Nissan "Rebate" that was applied to my lease.

That has been discontinued.

He went on to say that I could still apply for the separate Fed tax credit. I argued that seeing's how I didn't buy the car, I couldn't. He seemed to agree.

Seems like back then (May 2012), if you leased the car and thus couldn't get the 7.5, Nissan Leasing got it and "passed it on" to the customer?

But no longer. Does that make sense?

 

[TEG]

Yes, Nissan Leasing would get the $7500 fed credit it they bought the car and leased it to you.

I could see various interpretations for what they told you:

#1: Nissan Leasing has decided to keep the $7500 for themselves and not pass any of it on to the customer (unlikely)
or
#2: They no longer want to offer the $7500 up front, but rather pro-rate it into reduced payments over the expected life of the lease (more likley)
or
#3: For some reason they are no longer entitled to get the fed credit and so it is no longer available.

Perhaps they leased so many LEAFs that Nissan leasing's 2012 tax liability is already fully covered by credits now?
That would be true that they would no longer get value if they already had enough credits to cover their full tax liability.
It would shift the favor over to purchasing a LEAF instead of leasing it from them so that you could claim the credit yourself.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am told the Leaf $7,500 tax credit is no longer. They must have delivered 15,000 of them.

Given that Tesla has over 15,000 reservations, wonder how close they are to their threshold?

This is completely false. The threshold to eliminate the $7500 federal tax credit is 200,000 units.

 

[TEG]

This is completely false. The threshold to eliminate the $7500 federal tax credit is 200,000 units.

Yeah, I pointed that out a while back.

 

[Brian H]

That doesn't sound right. The per-model limit AFAIK is 200,000.

 

[tomsax]

I've written up some results from the data collected for the Plug In America LEAF Battery Survey.

Some quick findings from the survey:

- Over 90% of survey participants have not lost a capacity bar.
- Over 75% believe they have lost no more than a few miles of range.
- Those who have lost capacity bars are almost all in hot climates.
- Not all cars in hot climates have lost capacity bars.
- Factors other than miles and climate don't have a big effect on capacity.
- In cool climates, a LEAF can go 60,000 miles before losing a capacity bar.

The full report with more detail, information on capacity loss in different climates, analysis of factors other than mileage and climate on battery capacity, and how to interpret Nissan's battery report is available here:

http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/Leaf-Battery-Survey.pdf

We're interested in continuing to track LEAF battery health. If you are a LEAF owner and haven't yet participated, please send in a report.

Plug In America Leaf Battery Survey

Also, send in another report on your vehicle in six months, whenever you lose a capacity bar, or when you just want to show how many miles you've driven.

If you find this survey useful, please consider supporting Plug In America with your year-end donations. Plug In America - Donate

 

[TEG]

Awesome, Tom! Thanks for doing all that!

 

[JRP3]

- Over 90% of survey participants have not lost a capacity bar.
- Over 75% believe they have lost no more than a few miles of range.

Is there any way to break down data by vehicle age, as in eliminating data for those cars only 6 months old or less? Obviously someone submitting their data for this study after only a few months of ownership would skew the results.

 

[tomsax]

Is there any way to break down data by vehicle age, as in eliminating data for those cars only 6 months old or less? Obviously someone submitting their data for this study after only a few months of ownership would skew the results.

First, if you haven't already, I'd recommend reading the paper. It tells a much more complete story through text and charts.

All of the data is available in either tab-delimited or JSON format so if you don't see what you want in my paper, you can slice and dice it however you like.

 

[JRP3]

I did read the paper, quickly, and didn't see any breakdown in relation to vehicle age. Looking at the data chart I don't see any vehicle built after 6/2011 with bar loss. So in a group of similarly aged vehicles the percentage of capacity loss is higher, which I would expect.

 

[tomsax]

I did read the paper, quickly, and didn't see any breakdown in relation to vehicle age. Looking at the data chart I don't see any vehicle built after 6/2011 with bar loss. So in a group of similarly aged vehicles the percentage of capacity loss is higher, which I would expect.

I did not do a chart breaking things down by vehicle age, I was more focused on mileage.

It's interesting that no cars built after 6/2011 have lost a capacity bar. Good observation!

I notice one car that was built in 4/2012 reporting 248 gids for a full charge, so that car is close to losing a bar. There are two that were built in 8/2011 with less than 4,000 miles that report Gids in the 250's, so those cars are also noticeably down from nominal full new capacity (281 Gids) despite having been driven very little.

Only 40 out of 274 vehicles have reported Gids for a 100% charge, so I'm confident there are more newer cars that will be losing a capacity bar soon.

It will be very interesting to see how these cars are doing by mid-2013.

 

[TEG]

Chelsea Sexton's Prescriptions: RX for Ailing Automakers | PluginCars.com

 

[JRP3]

Nissan announces pack capacity warranty: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11043

 

[ChadS]

Nissan announces pack capacity warranty

...and they ask people to look at tomsax's awesome paper:

Also, many of you may have heard about or already read a recent LEAF customer survey that Plug-In America (PIA) administered. The survey, available here, is a valuable read for any LEAF owner concerned about the performance of their electric vehicle battery. I would encourage every LEAF owner to digest PIA’s data, which came from over 240 vehicles, with contributions from over 25 states, two Canadian provinces, and the UK, representing over 3 million miles driven.

 

[swegman]

Nissan Announces upgraded warranty on their battery

Nissan announced that they will restore/replace the battery in the Leaf if the charge drops below a certain level. See Nissan upgrades US Leaf warranties, will 'restore' batteries that lose too much charge . Has Tesla announced any similar policy. I know the 85KWh battery is warrantied for 8 years, but I don't think they state the condition qualifying for replacement. Do they?

 

[AnOutsider]

Nope, but I imagine if folks start having severe battery drop-off they would. Public perception is just too important at this stage of the game.

 

[FlasherZ]

This part here is the one that got my attention:

"Nissan added that it'd look to improve the accuracy of the battery gauge, since the aforementioned bars on the dash were computer managed and not exactly scientific."

Using translate.flasherz.local, I was able to translate it to this:

"Nissan said that it would reprogram the code so that the battery meter would never drop below 9 bars, and would make those that show 9, 10, and 11 today, show 10, 11, and 12, respectively."

 

[sp4rk]

This part here is the one that got my attention:



Using translate.flasherz.local, I was able to translate it to this:

Assume this is a joke, right?

Or does, somehow, translate.flasherz.local itself translate into babelfish or something?

 

[FlasherZ]

Assume this is a joke, right?

Or does, somehow, translate.flasherz.local itself translate into babelfish or something?

It's a joke. The cynic in me always reads official statements a bit differently. But don't be surprised if Nissan's "improve the accuracy of the battery gauge" is equivalent to Apple's "improve the accuracy of the reception bars on the iPhone 4" (i.e., "just show less bars") when it had an antenna defect and wanted to blame bad reception.

 

[strider]

Has Tesla announced any similar policy. I know the 85KWh battery is warrantied for 8 years, but I don't think they state the condition qualifying for replacement. Do they?

There are threads on this but the data based on Roadster ownership points to this not being an issue for Tesla. The LEAF's air-cooled battery just can't take care of itself in anything but the mildest climates.