Nissan Leaf

[vfx]

My take on this was that once the real range of an EV approaches 400 miles, no one will give a darn about Level 3--except perhaps for their own garage.

I'd say the opposite is true. Fast charging is what you need at the road trip sites. At home slow charging overnight is fine.

Do you ever drive 400 miles, arrive home and need to go 400 miles 20 minutes later? I would not even imagine that scenario in an industrial fleet vehicle.

 

[JRP3]

I agree, I see no need for an individual taking on the expense of a high power fast charger at home when that's the last place it will be needed. I'd think a 200 mile or so pack would take care of 90% of all range anxiety if fast charging on the road were available.

 

[woof]

I'd say the opposite is true. Fast charging is what you need at the road trip sites. At home slow charging overnight is fine.

Do you ever drive 400 miles, arrive home and need to go 400 miles 20 minutes later? I would not even imagine that scenario in an industrial fleet vehicle.

Well, I was more thinking that with a pack large enough to handle 400 miles, Level 2 charging would be too slow for overnight charging, thus Level 3 in the home. Not to charge in 20 minutes, but instead to get it to charged by the next morning after you stagger back home at 2 AM from that long ski trip on Sunday night so you can get to work the next day.

With the "range" of ICE being about 400 miles, and that distance being further than most would drive in a day, once EV's reached that parity people wouldn't constantly harp on "range".

Taking the longer view, assume it takes 10 years for a dense enough public Level 3 network to be built to travel cross country without any special planning. Now, assume battery tech advances the same amount in that 10 years that it did in the previous 10 years. Seems to me, by the time the public network is there, few would need to use it.

But, I take Young's point as well, that dragging around extra batteries just for peace of mind will quickly be realized as not needed. I guess I was assuming the packs of the future that get this 400 mile range would be no larger/heavier than the packs of today. But with that much capacity, it would still take a long time to charge at Level 2.

 

[JRP3]

True, but unless you need to go another 400 miles the next day you don't need to get a full charge overnight.

 

[donauker]

Tesla's current HPC would readily handle a 400 mile charge overnight.

 

[Iz]

Instead, they are going to focus on leasing the whole package, and thus be able to apply some percentage of the $7500 tax credit up front as a cost basis reduction.

Given the EV1's fate I would think twice about EVs and leasing programs.

 

[EVNow]

Given the EV1's fate I would think twice about EVs and leasing programs.

I don't know - does that cliche really hold good now ?

The world is a vastly different place. Nissan isn't being forced into this by some regulation - they think its the next big thing. More importantly I think we will get better electrics in a few years and many more options. I'd gladly lease than buy.

 

[Iz]

The world is a vastly different place. Nissan isn't being forced into this by some regulation - they think its the next big thing.

You have a valid point. However, I would say until range and recharge time become non-issues there will always be pressure on EV manufacturers. While the EV1 was a 2-seater, later models using NiMH had an EPA certified range of 140 miles/charge. That is ~ 1.4/x's more than touted for Nissan Leaf. History shows most EV1 owners did not complain much about range. GM however, used that argument as one of their reasons for taking back the leased vehicles.

Better batteries will really go far in silencing critics.

 

[EVNow]

You have a valid point. However, I would say until range and recharge time become non-issues there will always be pressure on EV manufacturers. While the EV1 was a 2-seater, later models using NiMH had an EPA certified range of 140 miles/charge. That is ~ 1.4/x's more than touted for Nissan Leaf. History shows most EV1 owners did not complain much about range. GM however, used that argument as one of their reasons for taking back the leased vehicles.

Better batteries will really go far in silencing critics.

Ghosn thinks the batteries will be 1/3rd the price and 1/3rd the size in a few years(?).

BBC News - Nissan-Renault head Carlos Ghosn's zero emission goal

Also look at this.

Oil is a challenge, both price and availability.

It seems he is both Peak Oil aware and willing to acknowledge it. Once the prices go up and gas rationing starts (possibly) - irrespective of range and recharge times there will be a huge waiting line for electric cars.

 

[EVNow]

"Nissan Says It Will Sell or Lease Leaf EV With Battery Included in U.S. Market" Green Car Advisor

Ok - this settles it.

Nissan has said it plans to sell the zero-emissions, five-passenger car without the pricey battery in the rest of the world - to keep its cost competitive with the Honda Civic and other vehicles in its class. The battery would be leased separately.

Nissan executives were concerned, however, that U.S. buyers would balk at the idea of buying an EV that came without an essential piece of the electric powertrain.


Today the company made clear its intention to sell the battery-electric vehicle in one package in the U.S.

 

[JRP3]

And in a final bit of news relating to the Leaf, Nissan today announced "a joint commitment" with the Hertz rental car company to rent Leafs in the U.S. and Europe beginning next year.

This is a great idea! Good way to expose the public to EV's without having to buy one. I'd probably rent one for a day just to try it out.

 

[johnr]

Nissan LEAF reservation process

From their press release:

The Nissan LEAF will be available to consumers via lease or sale, in a single transaction that includes the battery. Steps to acquiring a Nissan LEAF are:

REGISTER: Interested people can register for more information about the Nissan LEAF on www.NissanUSA.com.
To date, close to 50,000 people have registered on the website. Registrants will be given first priority to reserve a Nissan LEAF.

RESERVE: The reservation process will begin in April, shortly after the announcement of the price of the Nissan LEAF.
Upon paying a fully refundable $100 reservation fee, registrants will be among the first in line able to order a Nissan LEAF.

ORDER: Nissan will begin taking firm orders in August, for deliveries when sales begin in the driver's particular market.

EARLY DELIVERIES: Rollout begins in select markets in December 2010, with vehicles available in all major launch markets quickly thereafter.

 

[vfx]

Our "friend" Jerry Flint turns his wrath on the Leaf. Why Nissan's Electric Car Will Flop - Forbes.com

 

[johnr]

If you haven't been to the Nissan website lately, take a look at Nissan LEAF Electric Car | Home | Nissan USA Official Site - they've given the site a makeover and it looks great! They've also added a few more videos.

In this particular video, Mark Perry, Nissan's Director of Product Planning, comments on their EV strategy and briefly mentions other electric cars they will produce soon after the Leaf goes on sale. These words caught my ears: "We could have done a two seat sports car, it's not that difficult to do," he says with a smile, apparently referring to the Tesla Roadster, "and then you sell [just a few] of them; to try to sell a hundred thousand, you need something like this, and that's what we're going for."

 

[trevorlsciact]

In this particular video, Mark Perry, Nissan's Director of Product Planning, comments on their EV strategy and briefly mentions other electric cars they will produce soon after the Leaf goes on sale. These words caught my ears: "We could have done a two seat sports car, it's not that difficult to do," he says with a smile, apparently referring to the Tesla Roadster, "and then you sell [just a few] of them; to try to sell a hundred thousand, you need something like this, and that's what we're going for."

haha i noticed that, it made me laugh, but was kind of unnecessary but then again elon does quite a bit of stuff like that

 

[SByer]

If they can sell 100k of them, I'll be cheering in the streets... if they really hit the key points of what makes an EV an EV. They've already admitted they screwed up the braking-on-the-correct-pedal thing. Sigh.

 

[vfx]

Two Infinitis coming!

 

[qwk]

I wish them luck. Whether they sell 100k+ will depend on the price.
Since they haven't announced it yet, I'm betting on it not being too low.

As far as the Tesla comment goes, I really don't think they could build a 244 mile per charge car, that goes 0-60 in under 4 seconds, and sell it for anywhere close to the price of the roadster.

 

[johnr]

^ Yeah, that comment doesn't take into account the very big differences between the classes of vehicles, but it does make for a good soundbite I guess.

The newspapers are churning out loads of articles about the Leaf every single day. I kinda like today's post on the NYT blog from the Geneva Auto Show. Nissan's POV looks very encouraging:

Geneva Auto Show: Ghosn Optimistic About Electric Future - Wheels Blog - NYTimes.com

Mr. Ghosn conceded that true demand for electric vehicles won’t be known until they are on the market. But he said surveys show that more than 8 percent of car owners in the United States, Europe and Japan say they want their next vehicle to be electric.

“Let’s wait one year and see the reaction,” Mr. Ghosn said. But he added, “We are very optimistic. We may have to rush to build capacity for cars and batteries.”

 

[johnr]

Seattle PI Leaf FAQ

Got reservations? All-electric Nissan Leaf debuts in December

This article is from Tuesday but it still has a little bit of new information about the Leaf and in particular their plans for the Seattle market.