No fully leather-free (vegan) option being planned for the Model 3

[Delzur]

Lots of stuff here! Thank you for taking a sincere interest. Will try to keep it concise because again, I'm not sure this is the place to debate, the idea was just to get an information on the car!

The steric acid and anti slip agents mostly come from cows, pretty much all of it from cow, lamb, pig.

First, it can be done with non-animal sources (that can be other than palm oil). Second, we don't know which one is used in the Tesla.

So how is that differant than leather?

It's not different in what it causes. It is however different in its avoidability (is that a real word?): given that tesla HAS the replacement material available since it's used in seats, it's not a big step for them to apply it in one more place. Ofc it might need some work, but that's nowhere as complicated as changing the supply chain of a dozen parts.
note: some people might find it different because they "touch" it, however I do find that highly hypocritical so I'm not considering it here.

If anything many more animals are killed to make the rubber in a car than the leather.

If this is said in a generic case, I highly doubt this is true. I've read that it ranges from 4 or 5 cows for porsche and up to 12 for a rolls or bentley. Granted, I don't know how many could be needed for all other parts, but due to the relation between volume and surface of a cow, that would be impressive. If you compare just the wheel vs all other parts, that's probably true, but again, as mentioned above, one change is easier than the others. Also, answer below might help.

I’m not anti vegan just trying to figure out how you draw the line.

I would say that there's no line at all. The goal would be to have nothing from animal exploitation. As of now (and that wheel!) it's about having the less you can. As you said, it's almost impossible right now for various reasons, however the more people ask about these stuffs, the further we can go. I'm already super happy by the Tesla move announced in 2015 for example!

About palm stuff, it's always the same story. People want cheap stuff, so it's done in stupid ways by following market demand. There are probably more sustainable ways to do it, which would certainly cost more, and I'd be completely fine with that.

 

[coleAK]

Lots of stuff here! Thank you for taking a sincere interest. Will try to keep it concise because again, I'm not sure this is the place to debate, the idea was just to get an information on the car!


First, it can be done with non-animal sources (that can be other than palm oil). Second, we don't know which one is used in the Tesla.


It's not different in what it causes. It is however different in its avoidability (is that a real word?): given that tesla HAS the replacement material available since it's used in seats, it's not a big step for them to apply it in one more place. Ofc it might need some work, but that's nowhere as complicated as changing the supply chain of a dozen parts.
note: some people might find it different because they "touch" it, however I do find that highly hypocritical so I'm not considering it here.


If this is said in a generic case, I highly doubt this is true. I've read that it ranges from 4 or 5 cows for porsche and up to 12 for a rolls or bentley. Granted, I don't know how many could be needed for all other parts, but due to the relation between volume and surface of a cow, that would be impressive. If you compare just the wheel vs all other parts, that's probably true, but again, as mentioned above, one change is easier than the others. Also, answer below might help.


I would say that there's no line at all. The goal would be to have nothing from animal exploitation. As of now (and that wheel!) it's about having the less you can. As you said, it's almost impossible right now for various reasons, however the more people ask about these stuffs, the further we can go. I'm already super happy by the Tesla move announced in 2015 for example!

About palm stuff, it's always the same story. People want cheap stuff, so it's done in stupid ways by following market demand. There are probably more sustainable ways to do it, which would certainly cost more, and I'd be completely fine with that.

So your saying since non-animal seats/steering wheel are possible you want them non-animal. But since non- animal other rubber parts of the car like boots, gaskets, o rings, seals,... are not possible your ok with it?

 

[Delzur]

Not really OK with it, but since I do need a car and there's no better option available, I'll have to do with it. However that doesn't mean it should not change. I hope that making non-leather interiors (I'd even accept cloth, but it's almost impossible to have on good cars), fairly common by actively requesting them, science/industry could tackle other stuff next and find an acceptable alternative. Once this starts to appear, I will look for it when making purchases.

In the meantime, when there is no alternative and I don't need the product, I simply don't buy it (or buy a used one sometimes)

 

[wbhokie]

Not really OK with it, but since I do need a car and there's no better option available, I'll have to do with it. However that doesn't mean it should not change. I hope that making non-leather interiors (I'd even accept cloth, but it's almost impossible to have on good cars), fairly common by actively requesting them, science/industry could tackle other stuff next and find an acceptable alternative. Once this starts to appear, I will look for it when making purchases.

In the meantime, when there is no alternative and I don't need the product, I simply don't buy it (or buy a used one sometimes)

Yeah pretty much this. You have the camp of people who just don't care either way and just want leather. I personally like the synthetic leather and think it's a step in the right direction. Of course, I have no idea what really goes in to producing it. Someone mentioned the lab-grown leather and meat, and I think that is the direction things are going and I have no problem with that but of course it will never happen unless it is cost-effective. That's really the problem. We want to do things which are good for animals / the planet but companies want to do things that are profitable and/or good for their image. So as long as you can find them a solution that doesn't really hurt their bottom line they will consider it.

 

[MoHazee4]

Vegan leather...the phrase itself is hilarious. Maybe P-leather.

 

[jeremyz]

Tesla on Twitter
Model 3 interior is now 100% leather-free

 

[VT_EE]

Because plastic seating is somehow better for the environment than natural leather.

 

[BobSCA]

Because plastic seating is somehow better for the environment than natural leather.

First of all, leather is the skin of dead cows and bulls who were killed inhumanely after enduring a life of silent misery. That alone should be reason for any thoughtful person to never buy leather, meat, or milk.

Secondly, animal agriculture is a primary source of the greenhouse gasses that are causing catastrophic climate change, both from bovine methane emissions and from deforestation (e.g. the currently burning Amazon rain forest) due to the enormous and ever-growing amount of land required to feed livestock animals. Plant-based diets are far more efficient, requiring less water and land, and are not a major source of methane.

Some people foolishly claim that we should use the leather since the animals are already being killed for food. Of course, people who eat meat can make the opposite argument, that if we didn't eat meat the animals would be killed anyway for their skin. These are two sides of the same coin. The meat and the leather industry contribute equally to the demand, and therefore to the ecological destruction and needless animal suffering.

 

[OCR1]

I wonder what material they are using on the steering wheel now. I like how I can just wipe down my seats with Clorox wipes and not have to worry about using special leather cleaner. It makes keeping the car clean much easier.

 

[Octo]

First of all, leather is the skin of dead cows and bulls who were killed inhumanely after enduring a life of silent misery. That alone should be reason for any thoughtful person to never buy leather, meat, or milk.

You have a lot of good points and personally I am conflicted (my body evolved to be able to metabolize meat but I don’t have the blood lust like for example my cats who totally go into psycho murder mode when they find a small critter).

One thing that I do dislike strongly from your hyperbole is the “enduring a life of silent misery”. I grew up in Austria and over there, cattle is usually living quite happily (until they are killed, which I guess is not that happy). I have never seen miserable cows over there (on farms from my family or just generally). The ones in Texas seem pretty content, too. They don’t have a great view, though.

 

[Gen3]

First of all, leather is the skin of dead cows and bulls who were killed inhumanely after enduring a life of silent misery. That alone should be reason for any thoughtful person to never buy leather, meat, or milk.

Secondly, animal agriculture is a primary source of the greenhouse gasses that are causing catastrophic climate change, both from bovine methane emissions and from deforestation (e.g. the currently burning Amazon rain forest) due to the enormous and ever-growing amount of land required to feed livestock animals. Plant-based diets are far more efficient, requiring less water and land, and are not a major source of methane.

Some people foolishly claim that we should use the leather since the animals are already being killed for food. Of course, people who eat meat can make the opposite argument, that if we didn't eat meat the animals would be killed anyway for their skin. These are two sides of the same coin. The meat and the leather industry contribute equally to the demand, and therefore to the ecological destruction and needless animal suffering.

Methane emissions are part of the carbon cycle. Just like the water cycle. Water vapour is the worst green house gas. Should we try to refuse evaporation from lakes and oceans?

I agree we should stop deforestation. Animals can be raised humanely and in an environmentally sustainable way. Animals can repair damaged land too.

 

[mongo]

Methane emissions are part of the carbon cycle. Just like the water cycle. Water vapour is the worst green house gas. Should we try to refuse evaporation from lakes and oceans?

Water vapor is the most plentiful, but it is not the gas with the most GHG potential, nor is the level of vapor controllable.
Water Vapor Vs Carbon Dioxide: Which 'Wins' In Climate Warming?

Global warming potential - Wikipedia

Methane is released and generated by human activity, thus shifting the equilibrium. Pumping water to the surface is sort of similar, but does not have the same longer time scale effect. (Short of localized impacts of hydrating a desert).

 

[coleAK]

First of all, leather is the skin of dead cows and bulls who were killed inhumanely after enduring a life of silent misery. That alone should be reason for any thoughtful person to never buy leather, meat, or milk.

Secondly, animal agriculture is a primary source of the greenhouse gasses that are causing catastrophic climate change, both from bovine methane emissions and from deforestation (e.g. the currently burning Amazon rain forest) due to the enormous and ever-growing amount of land required to feed livestock animals. Plant-based diets are far more efficient, requiring less water and land, and are not a major source of methane.

Some people foolishly claim that we should use the leather since the animals are already being killed for food. Of course, people who eat meat can make the opposite argument, that if we didn't eat meat the animals would be killed anyway for their skin. These are two sides of the same coin. The meat and the leather industry contribute equally to the demand, and therefore to the ecological destruction and needless animal suffering.

Serious question. How do you feel about subsistence hunting/fishing for meat? Animal lives a “normal” life in the wild then goes quick and humanly and is harvested properly.

 

[korinel]

I'd prefer the vegan steering wheel, but over $500 is a bit rich for me, and I prefer nothing goes to waste. Does anyone know if Tesla is willing/going to charge less for swaps with other drivers? I'd gladly swap my leather steering wheel for a vegan one, in the LA area, if someone has one of the new ones.

 

[badronald]

Had ours swapped today - looks and feels very similar. If I didn't have the two side by side its hard to tell.

 

[Kevy Baby]

...needless animal suffering.

And that suffering is tasty.

 

[Matsayz]

Had ours swapped today - looks and feels very similar. If I didn't have the two side by side its hard to tell.

So you had it done after delivery? I’ve heard conflicting info.

 

[JayNJ]

What if they grow the leather in labs? That's what they're doing with steaks now. Leather could be next!

They already grow leather outside. No need to complicate it.

 

[mongo]

Had ours swapped today - looks and feels very similar. If I didn't have the two side by side its hard to tell.

Honest question: if you are already have the leather steering wheel, and it is not going to be used for a replacement part, what is the point of replacing it? I can understand if there were an allergy or such, but it seems like when people say they are green because they used a low impact countertop in the kitchen they just fully tore out and replaced.

Again, I am probably in the dark, so I am interested in you point of view.

 

[badronald]

Honest question: if you are already have the leather steering wheel, and it is not going to be used for a replacement part, what is the point of replacing it? I can understand if there were an allergy or such, but it seems like when people say they are green because they used a low impact countertop in the kitchen they just fully tore out and replaced.

Again, I am probably in the dark, so I am interested in you point of view.

For us (wife and I) it finally puts the finishing touch on what we think of as our perfect car. Having a fully vegan interior in our vehicle is more validation that animal leather is just not necessary - and for political, identity, and vanity reasons, that is important to us.
It cost $600 to swap and if that had been an option when we ordered the vehicle in 2018, I would have had no problem paying that much more for it, so it didn't bother me now. Some people like spoilers and chrome deletes, I like no dead cow hide to have to grope for 10k miles a year.

One thing the Tesla SC guy mentioned was that he wanted me to be sure I knew that if there ever was a firmware update to the car to enable a heated steering wheel, that this new wheel would not support it. He was clear he had no knowledge that this would ever be something that could or would happen - and I don't think the leather wheel has any heating elements in it, but thought it was interesting anyway.