No heated steering wheel? (Leaf and Bolt have it)

[dgpcolorado]

Cite?

Also, the relevant characteristic is energy not power...

And power times time equals energy, so your point is?

With my LEAF the steering wheel heater power use wasn't measurable whereas the cabin heater drew upwards of 5 kW. Much the same is true for the heated seats of my Model S: the power used is not measurable — even on the highest setting, "3" — on the power meter whereas the cabin heater (and AC, by the way) uses quite a lot. I'd venture to guess that the seat heaters use a lot more power than a heated steering wheel would. The headlights on my S use more power than the seat heater.

For those of us who remember incandescent light bulbs, consider how hot a 60 watt bulb would get (much too hot to hold). The amount of heat needed to warm a steering wheel is a small fraction of the waste heat of an incandescent light bulb.

 

[Topher]

For those of us who remember incandescent light bulbs, consider how hot a 60 watt bulb would get (much too hot to hold). The amount of heat needed to warm a steering wheel is a small fraction of the waste heat of an incandescent light bulb.

Sorry, the amount of heat required to heat something is based on the amount of it, and the thermal mass (or specific heat) of the substance it is made from. Needless to say the very thin shell of a light bulb has a lot less 'stuff' than a steering wheel.

The unit of measurement used to measure what goes into a thing to raise its temperature is energy, not power. That is why it is important.

Thank you kindly.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Heated steering wheels take about 10 W, while cabin heaters take about 6000 W at full power. For short trips much of the drive requires high power to heat up the cabin, vs. only 10 W for the steering wheel and another 80 W for heating the drivers seat.

I really want to get a model 3 as soon as I can. Tesla estimates that is Nov-Jan. However, not having a heated steering wheel is a big minus, espically since I will be paying for a "loaded" LR with PUP model. I may end up waiting until the heated wheel is available.

GSP

KmanAuto actually measured this.
Heated steering take 95W, Heated seats 57W, heaters on full blast 6.4kW, heaters just maintaining temperature 74
F (outside 51F) 342W.
Do note however, the heater full blast number is misleading given it was noted that cabin temperatures were very quickly brought up to 108F.

More here:
Tips for staying warm in your Tesla this winter without killing battery range

 

[dgpcolorado]

...The unit of measurement used to measure what goes into a thing to raise its temperature is energy, not power. That is why it is important...

While true, the question then becomes "how long do you plan to use the heater?" They tend to be rated in watts because the time used is discretionary and thermostatically controlled heaters will often cycle (steering wheel heaters tend to do this). Saying that a heater uses "1000 W•h" or "1 kW•h" or "3,600,000 joules" has little meaning unless you define how long it runs to give that energy number. That's why heaters are usually rated by the maximum power they can deliver, since the energy use depends on how long the heater runs at that power level (or a lesser level). If that doesn't make sense, I give up.

 

[stopcrazypp]

While true, the question then becomes "how long do you plan to use the heater?" They tend to be rated in watts because the time used is discretionary and thermostatically controlled heaters will often cycle (steering wheel heaters tend to do this). Saying that a heater uses "1000 W•h" or "1 kW•h" or "3,600,000 joules" has little meaning unless you define how long it runs to give that energy number. That's why heaters are usually rated by the maximum power they can deliver, since the energy use depends on how long the heater runs at that power level (or a lesser level). If that doesn't make sense, I give up.

I can see his point. You don't actually care about the peak power of the heater (it's a bit misleading). For example, with an outside temperature of 51F, inside temperature 65, the kmanauto showed that at full blast, the heater was able to bring things up to 112F in just 5 minutes. But maintaining the temperature will take a lot less.

A way to measure things is to see how much *energy* it takes to bring the cabin (or steering wheel) up to the target temperature. Then when it reaches that, you can switch back to looking at power consumption (the average power to maintain that temperature over a long period of time to account for cycling).

While the heated wheel doesn't make that much peak power, it's still way more than just the 10W suggested elsewhere by others (kmanauto's measurements is 95W).

 

[ccutrer]

While true, the question then becomes "how long do you plan to use the heater?" They tend to be rated in watts because the time used is discretionary and thermostatically controlled heaters will often cycle (steering wheel heaters tend to do this). Saying that a heater uses "1000 W•h" or "1 kW•h" or "3,600,000 joules" has little meaning unless you define how long it runs to give that energy number. That's why heaters are usually rated by the maximum power they can deliver, since the energy use depends on how long the heater runs at that power level (or a lesser level). If that doesn't make sense, I give up.

Totally agree. Power vs. energy can be very important depending on the situation. And if you're not a 100% duty cycle, they're not directly related. @Topher seems to be saying "it requires x amount of energy to raise the temperature of he steering wheel y°. Given that, and a power rating of 95W, it would take x/95 hours to bring it to that temperature with a 100% duty cycle." In contrast, knowing the 5.5kW power rating on the air heater also isn't all that useful because its duty cycle quickly drops off as you reach your desired temperature. So I guess the better question is, given a 20 minute drive, is it more efficient (use less energy) to have the steering wheel heater on the whole time, or to use the air heater with the thermostat. The proper way to answer this is to calculate the total energy use of both options, and compare. The easy and intuitive way is to say that peak power usage for the steering wheel is 95W, and minimum power usage for the air heater is 342W. Therefore, regardless of the total amount of time, and any variability in the power usage (the duty cycle), no matter how many minutes I integrate that over, the steering wheel uses less overall energy than the cabin heater.

Of course, the other devil in the details is that we're not even accomplishing the same work with both devices. The steering wheel heater isn't even heating the air. Or really the steering wheel itself. We don't care what the thermal mass of the steering wheel is doing, just that the surface is hot, and can transfer that heat to our frail little hands. Subjectively, we feel "warmer" when our hands are at 95°, even if the surrounding air is at 50° than we do if our hands are the same temperature as all the surrounding air is at a toasty 75°.

 

[Topher]

"how long do you plan to use the heater?"

No, the question is, how much energy does it take to get this steering wheel up to a temperature that you find comfortable. We can talk about heat losses after we get this simpler question answered. It doesn't matter what the wattage is, nor how long you use it, if it never gets up to temperature. This is especially important since we don't have any way of knowing whether the thermostat has currently turned the heater on or not. 30 minutes at a duty cycle of 10% and a power of 10W is different from 30 minutes at a duty cycle of 100% and a power of 10W

Thank you kindly.

 

[ccutrer]

No, the question is, how much energy does it take to get this steering wheel up to a temperature that you find comfortable.

About 30 seconds. And about 30 seconds to start getting uncomfortable when it turns itself off. When the rest of the cabin is cold, my preference is for basically a 100% duty cycle the entire time. But I'm probably not representative because I have poor circulation, so my hands and feet get super cold super quick. There may be others that just want to warm up the wheel for a minute from being an ice cube, and are fine with it staying at ambient temperature after that.

 

[gekcut]

Sorry, the amount of heat required to heat something is based on the amount of it, and the thermal mass

Sorry, that is incorrect. Thermal mass is the product of the amount of it (assuming by amount you mean its mass) and its specific heat capacity. The correct way to state it would be to say the amount of heat required to heat something is based on its thermal mass or is based on the amount of it (mass) and its specific heat (capacity).

 

[SageBrush]

Interesting. I've lived in CA my entire life so the steering wheel is only a problem in the summer when the car is over 100 degrees. Climate control should take care of that though.

Don't you have sun-shades in CA ?

 

[Akikiki]

I've seen no mention from Tesla of a heating steering wheel on the Model 3. I emailed the North American Tesla sales dept. and they said it is not listed in the features, but the gentleman said I should wait until I'm invited to configure my Model 3 as it may be added later.

I spoke with a different Tesla employee on the phone (one who schedules test drives) and he also said no heated steering wheel and thought it was left out to separate the 3 from the S.

The press kit at tesla.com/presskit makes no mention of a heated steering wheel, but to be fair, it also makes no mention of it for the S/X either (but we know it is available on those cars).

I'm quite confused here. The Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt both have optional heated steering wheels (BMW 3 series also has it). How could Tesla overlook this? I know they are trying to hit a price point, but their competition has this feature. My wife even said she'd be willing to pay a couple thousand just for the heating steering wheel alone. Pre-heating the car helps but the heated wheel is is still a big plus.

I've looked at aftermarket options, but they all look like they don't heat well or can't be used while actually driving, lol.

Anyone else wondering about this too?

Heated steering wheel wasn't over looked. They asked me if we should add it to the features/options and I said no.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

It can be argued that the glass roof of the PUP lets in cold which defeats the purpose of the Cold Weather Package. Bjorn Nyland used sound proofing foam as insulation in his old Model S.

wouldn't the glass let in the....ummm....that thing....up high.....makes warm.....


someone help me out here.

 

[Akikiki]

Heated steering wheel wasn't over looked. They asked me if we should add it to the features/options and I said no.

"We don't need no stinkin' heated steering wheel."

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Other vehicles cannot precondition either, making the interior the perfect temperature before you even step in. I still stand by the idea that Elon planned on being much further along by now with autonomy than they are thus changing the way we look at and compare features to manually driven automobiles.

plenty of remote start vehicles out there for exactly the purpose of preconditioning.

 

[KarenRei]

wouldn't the glass let in the....ummm....that thing....up high.....makes warm.....

someone help me out here.

You speak of the Daystar. I have heard tale of its presence. The Old Ones speak of a time when the Daystar soared above the mountains and circled overhead, and the Wise One says such a time will come again. But when Winter is come and the Dark has set in upon the land, such legends seem like a fool's tale.

 

[ccutrer]

plenty of remote start vehicles out there for exactly the purpose of preconditioning.

Remote start on a keyless entry system pales in comparison to using your phone. They might work okay at home when the vehicle is in the garage (which you really shouldn't use with an ICE) or right out front. But rarely works when you're at the grocery store, restaurant, or basically anywhere else because by the time you're close enough to turn it on, you're about 10 seconds away from getting in the vehicle anyway.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Remote start on a keyless entry system pales in comparison to using your phone. They might work okay at home when the vehicle is in the garage (which you really shouldn't use with an ICE) or right out front. But rarely works when you're at the grocery store, restaurant, or basically anywhere else because by the time you're close enough to turn it on, you're about 10 seconds away from getting in the vehicle anyway.

A much-requested feature for the Telsa app or fob has been an "all windows down" command. It bothers me to air condition a hot car without at least venting the hot air first; seems wasteful to me.

 

[ccutrer]

A much-requested feature for the Telsa app or fob has been an "all windows down" command. It bothers me to air condition a hot car without at least venting the hot air first; seems wasteful to me.

That would be an excellent addition. And many other features (charge current control, closing windows, and in the case of Model X - doors), but this is not the thread for that.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Remote start on a keyless entry system pales in comparison to using your phone. They might work okay at home when the vehicle is in the garage (which you really shouldn't use with an ICE) or right out front. But rarely works when you're at the grocery store, restaurant, or basically anywhere else because by the time you're close enough to turn it on, you're about 10 seconds away from getting in the vehicle anyway.

While I agree, that wasn't the premise presented that I replied to. It was simply that preconditioning isn't available, when clearly it is.

We weren't debating the merits of its effectiveness, just its existence.


But yea, it has its flaws.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

A much-requested feature for the Telsa app or fob has been an "all windows down" command. It bothers me to air condition a hot car without at least venting the hot air first; seems wasteful to me.

As long as there's an "all windows up" button as well. (I've accidentally pocket-pressed the button my Volt's fob.)