The hands down winner for the first question people ask me about my car is "how far can you go on a charge?" The second is "how long does it take to charge?" It is the broadest concern about electric vehicles, well founded or not.
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Agreed. I was focusing only on "range comment"
That was supposed to be a goal, not something that could be done next week (or even next year).
Great point. Here in the US, we often tend to think of Tesla buyers as having single family homes. In cities where multi-family dwellings are the norm and many Tesla owners will have to go out of their way to use Superchargers or other DC fast chargers, bigger batteries will improve convenience. This wouldn't be necessary with AC chargers in every parking garage and along every curb, but that level of infrastructure probably won't exist for a long time.
I agree with other posters that Tesla simply has no immediate plans for larger battery sizes and that they'll likely offer bigger batteries as price/performance/density improves. However, it doesn't hurt for them to hear from their fans, loud and clear, that a good segment of their market still wants more range! Being able to do long drives was key to our Model S 85 purchase, and we plan to max out the battery on the Model 3 that we've reserved...
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
More range might be easier to obtain with more efficient electronics, drive lines, motors, tires, aerodynamics, less weight etc.
I understand the new Motors, going into the Model 3 are even more efficient than those used in the S and X.
This, along with more charging options and locations, might give customers the driving experience they are hoping for.
My Harley gives me a tremendous riding experience, however it does not even make 200 miles between fuel stops. We really enjoy the stops for fuel, as we talk to other riders, get a snack, use the restroom and give our butts a rest.
With an open attitude, a 20 minute Supercharger stop between Houston and Dallas, could even make that journey more enjoyable.
I understand the new Motors, going into the Model 3 are even more efficient than those used in the S and X.
This, along with more charging options and locations, might give customers the driving experience they are hoping for.
My Harley gives me a tremendous riding experience, however it does not even make 200 miles between fuel stops. We really enjoy the stops for fuel, as we talk to other riders, get a snack, use the restroom and give our butts a rest.
With an open attitude, a 20 minute Supercharger stop between Houston and Dallas, could even make that journey more enjoyable.
Agreed. Those stops really make a trip far more relaxing, and probably safer as well. However, for those who haven't known anything else, well, many don't have very open minds.
There are trade-offs with more range. More weight in the batteries incurs a multiplier - heavier structure, suspension, additional crash protection, etc...
I'm okay with them saying that technical limitations mean that they can't offer more than 100 YET. But I get frustrated with them saying that there is no intention to pursue more. And I feel like it's my obligation to squawk when anybody says "nobody needs it", for fear that Tesla will listen to those voices.
It is absolutely needed, if the intent to to produce a no-compromise vehicle. Even the current king, the 100D, is a compromise vehicle compared to an ICE for a LOT of people. It certainly is for me.
Nope. There's very little left to be gained in those areas and what remains will be very difficult to get. All of the items mentioned are old and highly refined technologies, and we are WELL into diminishing returns.
And this is a clear example of telling the customer what they want. This is one of cardinal sins of marketing, and it leads to nothing good.
Right. Getting rid of the junk underneath the car (exhaust, muffler, cat) was how most of the aerodynamic improvement on the Tesla was achieved. There is very little left to do, and what little there is would produces moans and wails from those who want a car to look similar to the cars that have been made for the past century (and carriages before that)--whether there is any functional justification for continuing that style or not.
This is often true, but the exceptions have been real game changers. No one wanted an iPhone before Apple came up with one, and now every phone manufacturer makes a "me too".
The iPhone was qualitatively different from what came before. All other things being equal, less range is always worse and more range is always better.
The only reason somebody would opt for less range, is that is comes with trade-offs: more $, sometimes poorer performance, etc... Each person will weight those trade-offs differently. For somebody in warm, sunny California, the range is far less valuable than for people in the northern states and Canada.
Yup.
Consider the Cd.. Model S is 0.24. The model 3 is hoping to hit 0.21. There's not a huge amount of gains that are going to be made.
The motor and inverter efficiencies are in to the mid 90% range. You might squeeze a bit more out but that's it.
So you are right, it's not going to be "easy" to squeeze significantly more range out of those areas...
PJFW8
Red Menace may hurt me
No one thinks that. We object to the assumption that our expressed need/desire for longer range is so easily tossed aside by those who don't need 300 miles (or 180 on a very cold and windy winter day) or do not intend to tow. We want the option and will pay for it. No one expects this overnight, but Elon spooked many when he implied that 100kWh was enough!
Mo City
Active Member
When Tesla's mfg output is within striking distance of demand, they will announce larger batteries.
Give it 2-3 years minimum.
Give it 2-3 years minimum.
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Tesla boast having the cheapest most energy dense cells.
Price simply is of ZERO concern to them being a premium brand. Most of their cars are $!00K+, they can't make enough of them? By the time those get 2170's, the cost battery of a 100kWh car will be 6-10% of the sale price.
As Tesla is pricing the battery portion of their cars SO HIGH, proven with software range upgrades and 75 vs 100 pricing, it should be very high on their agenda to find was to cram more cells in. Weight, shmeight!! By now, the weight of Model X seems very much accepted. Serious, HOW HARD would be it be for the technoological leader in automotive to launch a long wheelbase Model S? Yes, it could have a slightly nicer interior to not be spanked by Lucid Air too much, the extra length could largely go to rear seat comfort, or making it a true 7-seat like Model X, just lower for consumption (height matters).
[rant mode]
But seeing how thin a pack is when it's lowered from a chassis, you have to think that in a time where crossovers and SUV supposed are considered "normal", just adding a friggin' SINGLE INCH of floor height, ZERO chassis length, just a 40% batery increase for a Model S to need Model X suspension...why friggin' not?? Yes, a modded chassis and pack outer, but the weight increase would be largely cells, as would be the cost impact. But imagine how much they could charge for the 140kWh car, even in RWD? The margin would be insane, no, LUDICROUS, and people would get the car they WANT. 450 miles of range. Very few charging cycles, very little degradation. Super quick refills, just maxing out present superchargers (what can those put into a car in reality, 130kW?) that wouldn't even tickle a 140kWh battery. Oh, and that's based on 18650's. Using 2170's, an inch thicker pack could be 175kWh or so, yes, 500+ miles.
Model S 175UR (UltraRange) would be an inch taller (if that), ride really smooth, still smack X75D for consumption, and cost Tesla a shockingly low amount. Even with barely altered chemistry, a 175 car could pull close to 200kW from a CCS charger. 200 miles added in 20 minutes? And realistically, you never get more than one or two such quick stops per day, providing good charging at your destination. It would END range axiety of newbies.
[/rant mode]
Price simply is of ZERO concern to them being a premium brand. Most of their cars are $!00K+, they can't make enough of them? By the time those get 2170's, the cost battery of a 100kWh car will be 6-10% of the sale price.
As Tesla is pricing the battery portion of their cars SO HIGH, proven with software range upgrades and 75 vs 100 pricing, it should be very high on their agenda to find was to cram more cells in. Weight, shmeight!! By now, the weight of Model X seems very much accepted. Serious, HOW HARD would be it be for the technoological leader in automotive to launch a long wheelbase Model S? Yes, it could have a slightly nicer interior to not be spanked by Lucid Air too much, the extra length could largely go to rear seat comfort, or making it a true 7-seat like Model X, just lower for consumption (height matters).
[rant mode]
But seeing how thin a pack is when it's lowered from a chassis, you have to think that in a time where crossovers and SUV supposed are considered "normal", just adding a friggin' SINGLE INCH of floor height, ZERO chassis length, just a 40% batery increase for a Model S to need Model X suspension...why friggin' not?? Yes, a modded chassis and pack outer, but the weight increase would be largely cells, as would be the cost impact. But imagine how much they could charge for the 140kWh car, even in RWD? The margin would be insane, no, LUDICROUS, and people would get the car they WANT. 450 miles of range. Very few charging cycles, very little degradation. Super quick refills, just maxing out present superchargers (what can those put into a car in reality, 130kW?) that wouldn't even tickle a 140kWh battery. Oh, and that's based on 18650's. Using 2170's, an inch thicker pack could be 175kWh or so, yes, 500+ miles.
Model S 175UR (UltraRange) would be an inch taller (if that), ride really smooth, still smack X75D for consumption, and cost Tesla a shockingly low amount. Even with barely altered chemistry, a 175 car could pull close to 200kW from a CCS charger. 200 miles added in 20 minutes? And realistically, you never get more than one or two such quick stops per day, providing good charging at your destination. It would END range axiety of newbies.
[/rant mode]
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