Norbert
TSLA will win
Yep.
Green Car Congress: Toshiba’s SCiB battery for the Fit EV
However, a comment is talking about "average energy density and high cost"...
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No Supercharging for 40Kwh :(
- Thread starter fairlycool
- Start date
Yep.
Green Car Congress: Toshiba’s SCiB battery for the Fit EV
However, a comment is talking about "average energy density and high cost"...
Norbert
TSLA will win
As I just posted in this thread:
Converted Audi A2 goes 605 km (378mi) without charging
Tesla apparently at least tried to contact DBM early 2011. However that surely would be a long-term project.
Hi Mycroft,
I'm not sure whether you were responding to my question about high amperage Level 2 chargers. Perhaps I missed it in your references, but the Level 2 chargers that I saw referenced were only 30 amp and dual on-board chargers wouldn't charge any faster.
Electric Vehicle Charging Station Configurations
Larry
Mycroft
Life happens
That's true, but you can still get a 40kWh one in the same mass as the 85kWh using 18650s.
However, as I posted above, there's a cell from Tesla's preferred supplier that charges at 1C and seems to fit the number of cells for the 40kWh battery previously quoted. So what's the problem? Nothing technical...
Norbert
TSLA will win
From the PDF I wouldn't be able to tell the effect of the charging rate on cycle life. Another consideration is that immediately after charging, (highway speed) driving itself will add a larger stress to a smaller pack, so that there could be accumulating effects from the combination of these demands on the battery.
What about the existing network of HPC's which charge at 16.6 Kw's ? Most have been converted to J1772
Hi Mycroft,
So to recap my point, if DC fast charging more than 2% of the time is ill-advised even for 85 kWh batteries, and the utility of dual on-board chargers is only realized when connected to high amperage sources, then in the absence of high amperage roadside chargers, when taking repeated long road trips our only option is to reroute to RV parks. I guess its going to be hit or miss whether the detour to a high amperage RV site will actually result in shorter duration trips than stopping roadside 30 amp chargers.
Unless I've missed something I find it difficult to justify the second on-board charger at this time, with any size battery pack, knowing the second charger can be retrofitted later if the EV infrastructure makes it feasible to do so.
Larry
Hi Lloyd,
Could you please elaborate? How extensive is the network? Are these connections that were originally designed to accommodate the Tesla Roadsters?
Thanks.
Larry
Yes Larry,
Most of the Public HPC's at least in California have been converted to J1772, and most have retained their full 70 amp capability. I posted a thread to add or convert to J1772 an existing HPC to allow charging at the increased amperage. I'm not sure how many were installed on the east coast, but in California there are public one's spaced on the freeways to allow the roadsters to go between San francisco and Los Angeles, Sacramento etc. Some of the other Roadster owners my know how many of these were sold. Some will still have the Tesla connectore designed for the Roadster. If someone wants to convert one it is easy, takes about an hour.
We may find that we can order a Model S connector alone to allow conversion of an HPC to a model S EVSE! If this is the case this will provide an additional use for the existing HPC's. To use their full potential with the model S you will need the 2nd onboard charger. Otherwise you will be linited to 10 Kw. You wont be able to use the full potential of the 2nd, but most of it! I paid $900 for an HPC on Ebay!
Most of the Public HPC's at least in California have been converted to J1772, and most have retained their full 70 amp capability. I posted a thread to add or convert to J1772 an existing HPC to allow charging at the increased amperage. I'm not sure how many were installed on the east coast, but in California there are public one's spaced on the freeways to allow the roadsters to go between San francisco and Los Angeles, Sacramento etc. Some of the other Roadster owners my know how many of these were sold. Some will still have the Tesla connectore designed for the Roadster. If someone wants to convert one it is easy, takes about an hour.
We may find that we can order a Model S connector alone to allow conversion of an HPC to a model S EVSE! If this is the case this will provide an additional use for the existing HPC's. To use their full potential with the model S you will need the 2nd onboard charger. Otherwise you will be linited to 10 Kw. You wont be able to use the full potential of the 2nd, but most of it! I paid $900 for an HPC on Ebay!
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1C would certainly give an 80% point of under 500 cycles if one for a similar Sanyo cell is any guide, but the point is that you don't do this every day.
In the same way that when you select range mode the VDS pops up a dialogue about reducing battery life, do the same for rapid charging. Maybe limit uses and certainly log it for the warranty.
Norbert
TSLA will win
In general, it appears to me at this point, it might take battery development a bit longer to fully support everything we are asking for. However the goal should remain the same, my vote would be that Tesla remain committed to realizing the combination of 200+ mile range and 90 kW charging (with as few detours as absolutely necessary).
This is from the Nov Elon interview with Elon. From this statement it appears that Tesla has intentions to make adapters for may connector formats, including Chademo!
"Since most public stations will be set up to charge with the J1772 plug, this is a potential problem, but Tesla says it will supply adaptors to accommodate any existing standard. The company also unveiled its home charger (which it calls a “connector,” since the actual 10- or 20-kilowatt charger is on the car). The wall-mounted unit is an ultra-sharp angular design, in various colors to match customers’ cars."
"Since most public stations will be set up to charge with the J1772 plug, this is a potential problem, but Tesla says it will supply adaptors to accommodate any existing standard. The company also unveiled its home charger (which it calls a “connector,” since the actual 10- or 20-kilowatt charger is on the car). The wall-mounted unit is an ultra-sharp angular design, in various colors to match customers’ cars."
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Went to the Bellevue Store to take a look at the Beta car. Chatted with a couple of reps.
They are equally surprised like us that the 160 miler won't have QC capability. One of the reps said she had been telling everyone that all three models will support the supercharger. She had heard that part of the reason for this decison is that they felt they can't give 8 yr warranty if they allow QC. She was till hopeful they will have a CHAdeMO adopter that works with the 160 miler.
The reps were telling everyone about the 160,230 & 300 models. They haven't switched to 40,60 & 85 kwh yet.
They are equally surprised like us that the 160 miler won't have QC capability. One of the reps said she had been telling everyone that all three models will support the supercharger. She had heard that part of the reason for this decison is that they felt they can't give 8 yr warranty if they allow QC. She was till hopeful they will have a CHAdeMO adopter that works with the 160 miler.
The reps were telling everyone about the 160,230 & 300 models. They haven't switched to 40,60 & 85 kwh yet.
WhiteKnight
_____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White
One reason to have the Twin Chargers (20 kW) is the ability to use any of the High Power Connectors at the Tesla Stores which will be in every major American city within a few years.
WhiteKnight
_____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White
I think the main reason the 40 kWh car has been dialed back in terms of 0-60 and Supercharging is the warranty. They weren't feeling comfortable with an 8 year warranty otherwise and wanted to keep them all at 8 years.
Hi,
Every little bit helps, but in using Robert's example where he wants to make repeated long road trips he would be forced to detour off the highway to recharge at an RV site or a Tesla store. In many, perhaps most cases I doubt he would be saving any time adding these detours to his direct highway route. In a few years if there are sufficient high amperage chargers/connections along strategic highway routes he will always have the option of retrofitting the car with a second on-board charger. In the short term I seriously doubt there will be any immediate use for the second charger for the vast majority of early adopters.
Larry
I'm thinking getting the twin chargers may be worth it from a resale value perspective. Not that I plan on selling the car, but you never know. This seems like one of those things that it's better to have and end up not needing, than the other way around (like the 85-battery)...
True, but there is good reason to believe that the second on-board charger could be retrofitted later when the widespread availability of high amperage sources is assured.
Larry
Yeah but that sounds like a hassle... Plus I'm going to guess it'll cost more than 1500...
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