Nuclear power

[mspohr]

Wonder if they'll ever get past Stage 1....

Utility CEO: Don't sell off failed nuclear project for parts

How much is 50000 tons of concrete and a big hole in the ground worth?

 

[nwdiver]

How much is 50000 tons of concrete and a big hole in the ground worth?

IIRC there were a lot of expensive components that were installed. Pumps, steam generators, electronics... AP1000 modules....

According to Steve Byrne, COO of South Carolina Electric and Gas Co. (SCE&G), 85% of the major equipment necessary to build V.C. Summer Units 2 and 3 is onsite

That would be amusing if SCANA posted a reactor vessel on eBay... 'local delivery preferred'

 

[mspohr]

IIRC there were a lot of expensive components that were installed. Pumps, steam generators, electronics... AP1000 modules....

According to Steve Byrne, COO of South Carolina Electric and Gas Co. (SCE&G), 85% of the major equipment necessary to build V.C. Summer Units 2 and 3 is onsite

That would be amusing if SCANA posted a reactor vessel on eBay... 'local delivery preferred'

Probably would be good to sell off that stuff if they can find a buyer. (Is anybody building the same design?)
I read that Westinghouse is going to get out of the reactor construction business (duh, since they completely failed at it) and focus on reactor design, service and maintenance.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Wonder if they'll ever get past Stage 1....

Utility CEO: Don't sell off failed nuclear project for parts

Hmmm, I love these quotes:

Carter said he knew there needed to be strong proof for ending the politically popular project.

The utilities' customers have already paid more than $2 billion on the now-scuttled project through a series of rate hikes since 2009, which covered interest costs on financing. The partly built reactors account for 18 percent of SCE&G customers' electric bills.

Remind me again which political party runs SC and whether they support lowering costs with renewables or increasing ratepayers costs by failed nuclear. Naw, forget it, I think I got it.

South Carolina House stalls renewable energy tax breaks that solar advocates wanted, halting bill this year

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Apparently Perry is going to give these guys $3.7B of your tax money to build a nuke plant that will almost certainly go belly up.

This is 10x Solyndra if you knew for a fact it was going to fail.

Energy Department backs $3.7B in loans for Georgia nuclear plant

 

[nwdiver]

As if more evidence was needed that the Nuclear industry could not care less about climate change... my previous employer URENCO is fighting to stop a ~1GW wind farm. Sure glad I walked away from that hypocritical cesspool...

URENCO wants to kill the project because under adverse conditions it's possible electric costs could go up by....... $0.00024/kWh.......

Hmmmm Talk about the pot calling the kettle black... Hey URENCO... SC called... they want their $10B back!!

So... can we at least agree now that the nuclear industry doesn't get to claim to be climate champions anymore?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Um, why should a nuclear operator care about global warming? I don’t see the hypocracy. They are in the business of delivering cheap baseload electricity.

 

[nwdiver]

Um, why should a nuclear operator care about global warming?

Ask NEI... they're the ones always saying we need nuclear because it's carbon-free....

apparently the need to reduce GHGs from electricity generation only applies to things the put money in their pocket...

 

[mspohr]

Looks like the UK is wrestling with whether or not to fund research into small modular reactors. Might produce power in 2030.

Paul Dorfman, a research fellow at University College London, said: “The real question the government must ask is this: given the ongoing steep reduction in all renewable energy costs, and since SMR research and development is still very much ongoing, by the time SMRs comes to market, can they ever be cost competitive with renewable energy? The simple answer to that is a resounding no.”

An energy industry source also questioned how credible most of the SMR developers were. “Almost none of them have got more than a back of a fag packet design drawn with a felt tip,” the source said.


UK government to release funding for mini nuclear power stations

 

[nwdiver]

.”

An energy industry source also questioned how credible most of the SMR developers were. “Almost none of them have got more than a back of a fag packet design drawn with a felt tip,” the source said.


UK government to release funding for mini nuclear power stations

NuScale has made significant progress. I know a handful of people that left URENCO to work for them. They're also backed by Flour now so they've got A LOT of funding. They submitted a design for license approval a year ago to the NRC and hope to have a demo plant by 2026.

If I had to place odds I think their chances of turning a profit ever are ~5%. They still have no customers. Their business plan doesn't make sense given market conditions. Their cost estimate is ~$5/w AT SCALE (if they can get there).

'2030'? That would be impressive. The nuclear industry doesn't do impressive especially when it comes to timelines. NuScale was founded in 2007. So that's ~20 years from inception to first plant.

 

[mspohr]

NuScale has made significant progress. I know a handful of people that left URENCO to work for them. They're also backed by Flour now so they've got A LOT of funding. They submitted a design for license approval a year ago to the NRC and hope to have a demo plant by 2026.

If I had to place odds I think their chances of turning a profit ever are ~5%. They still have no customers. Their business plan doesn't make sense given market conditions. Their cost estimate is ~$5/w AT SCALE (if they can get there).

'2030'? That would be impressive. The nuclear industry doesn't do impressive especially when it comes to timelines. NuScale was founded in 2007. So that's ~20 years from inception to first plant.

We really can't wait another ten or twenty years to start reducing CO2 emissions. By then it will be too late. Wind and solar can be installed now and are cheaper.

 

[Brando]

If you read my posts I've been pretty clear as to why I'm convinced fission is a fools pursuit. Cost. I'd love to see cost effective nuclear power displace fossil fuels but it has become abundantly clear this is next to impossible. Further... the industry has no interest in displacing fossil fuels. So it's an impossible goal with no motivation to achieve it... what do you think their odds are?

Since the industrial revolution we've dumped ~80% as much CO2 into the atmosphere as there was at the beginning of the industrial revolution. The total amount of nuclear waste generated since 1950 is ~80k tons. That's 0.002%. Beyond that... there's research that indicates that there's a 'Uranium Cycle' in the ocean. The concentration of Uranium is held at it's current level by chemical reactions with the sea floor so you can add or remove tons of it without a change in the long term concentration.

There were many reasons I walked away from a relatively easy 6-figure job at URENCO. The fact that ~90% of my co-worker were climate change deniers and the CEO commuted in a Toyota Tundra was certainly up there . He parked right next to the charging stations they tried to stop from getting installed and I walked past his truck everyday. I can't imagine this would be the case in the solar or wind industry. The nuclear industry could not care less about climate change or clean energy and it shows. Success (nuclear power further mitigating climate change) is not one of the possible outcomes.

Thanks to the Finlanders for making this documentary. "Onkalo Into Eternity" Atomic waste stored in Onkola will be harmless in 2.500,000 years but Finland thinks reasonably safe by only 100,000 years - good luck with that, right? perhaps no plutonium?

 

[Brando]

NuScale has made significant progress. I know a handful of people that left URENCO to work for them. They're also backed by Flour now so they've got A LOT of funding. They submitted a design for license approval a year ago to the NRC and hope to have a demo plant by 2026.

If I had to place odds I think their chances of turning a profit ever are ~5%. They still have no customers. Their business plan doesn't make sense given market conditions. Their cost estimate is ~$5/w AT SCALE (if they can get there).

'2030'? That would be impressive. The nuclear industry doesn't do impressive especially when it comes to timelines. NuScale was founded in 2007. So that's ~20 years from inception to first plant.

wind and solar are on downward price trends for 20 years or more. With storage being added utilization and prices may not have reached bottom yet. <$0.03 / kW at utility scale plants.

 

[Brando]

I can help but wonder how do we get rid of the base load power that Sweden for example requires.

storage with Hydro probably first and cheapest
batteries keep coming down - see Australia for current example - Tesla 100 MW
flow batteries show great promise
(internet search)

 

[nwdiver]

We really can't wait another ten or twenty years to start reducing CO2 emissions. By then it will be too late. Wind and solar can be installed now and are cheaper.

Precisely!

It's impossible to express how angry and 'hurt' for lack of a better word I am with URENCO. I worked there for almost 8 years. I walked away from a $100k+ job because I couldn't take the corporate hypocrisy any longer... never thought they would actually put this much effort into stopping a wind farm. I've had a rather dramatic shift in that time. I was in Hansons camp viewing nuclear as our savior 8 years ago. Anyone that doesn't now see them in the same camp as coal and gas isn't paying attention or they're blinded by ideology.

To be clear. URENCO is a gas centrifuge plant. NOT a power plant. They're a customer not an electric plant. The fact that the nuclear industry is actively working to undermine the expansion of wind is beyond pathetic and hypocrisy of the highest order. The most absurd part of their testimony is the complaint that SPS is asking Rate Payers to assume the small financial risk of the project. THAT'S WHAT PUBLIC UTILITIES DO!! There has NEVER been a nuclear plant constructed where the public did not bear 100% of the financial risk... unfortunately for SC and GA.

This is what nuclear wants to stop....

Because of a possible increase of $0.00024/kWh..... REALLY??? This is why URENCO wants to kill a 1GW wind farm?! This is why URENCO wants to add ~2M tons CO2/yr???? W.T.F.... You thought I hated nuclear before....

 

[mspohr]

Precisely!

It's impossible to express how angry and 'hurt' for lack of a better word I am with URENCO. I worked there for almost 8 years. I walked away from a $100k+ job because I couldn't take the corporate hypocrisy any longer... never thought they would actually put this much effort into stopping a wind farm. I've had a rather dramatic shift in that time. I was in Hansons camp viewing nuclear as our savior 8 years ago. Anyone that doesn't now see them in the same camp as coal and gas isn't paying attention or they're blinded by ideology.

To be clear. URENCO is a gas centrifuge plant. NOT a power plant. They're a customer not an electric plant. The fact that the nuclear industry is actively working to undermine the expansion of wind is beyond pathetic and hypocrisy of the highest order. The most absurd part of their testimony is the complaint that SPS is asking Rate Payers to assume the small financial risk of the project. THAT'S WHAT PUBLIC UTILITIES DO!! There has NEVER been a nuclear plant constructed where the public did not bear 100% of the financial risk... unfortunately for SC and GA.

This is what nuclear wants to stop....

Because of a possible increase of $0.00024/kWh..... REALLY??? This is why URENCO wants to kill a 1GW wind farm?! This is why URENCO wants to add ~2M tons CO2/yr???? W.T.F.... You thought I hated nuclear before....

Please tell us how you really feel

 

[Skotty]

I still say nuclear has a lot of potential for good. That potential just isn't being realized. A casualty of too many mistakes, bad choices, and bad faith. I still have hope that something good can come from nuclear fusion research; I check in on ITER from time to time.

I almost went into Nuclear Engineering back in college. Now I'm glad I didn't.

 

[nwdiver]

I still say nuclear had a lot of potential for good.

Typo?

I still have hope that something good can come from nuclear fusion research;

Perhaps... but not in any timeframe that would be even remotely useful in mitigaing climate change. If we haven't shifted to renewables by the time we get fusion to work... we won't be around long enough to get fusion to work.

 

[Skotty]

Perhaps... but not in any timeframe that would be even remotely useful in mitigaing climate change. If we haven't shifted to renewables by the time we get fusion to work... we won't be around long enough to get fusion to work.

Yeah. I'm totally behind renewables at this point. But I can still lament the could of beens. Among other things, nuclear power could have been a bridge between conservatives who like nukes and liberals who like energy systems that don't emit greenhouse gases. Such bridges are too far and few between, and this is another one less.

 

[Brando]

Concrete creates about 5% of worlds CO2
Emissions from the Cement Industry

That hole in the ground about $10,000,000,000.

And since DoE is where atomic weapons expenditures are kept separate from Pentagon, it helps feed Military Industrial war machine.