[NYT] How did GM Create Tesla's Dream Car First?

[RAM_Eh]

I agree.

Members of this enthusiast interest group may feel differently, of course, but the major market for the next few years will be second cars. The general public still needs to be convinced that BEVs can meet their needs, and most 2-car families will realize that they can use one as the second car and never need to charge it away from home. Once they use it and realize its benefits, they will be inclined to become enthusiasts and recommend them to friends.

Many people (myself included) won't be comfortable with long-distance travel until the recharging situation improves. I can "recharge" my ICE car in about 5 minutes anywhere along the route of my choice. Having to plan a route that takes me past chargers and include extra time for the fill-up (maybe a lot of time if all the "pumps" are in use) aren't selling points.

I sometimes take friends to sporting events at distances that would require a recharge. My friends aren't going to be impressed by the inconveniences when all they're interested in is getting there and back as quickly as possible.

I disagree with you on that.

Last weekend I took a 1400 mile round trip with another couple to a sporting event in my car. We had previously timed the same trip in an ice and we noted that the trip each way including charging only added 20 min, which we used to have a decent meal at a restaurant. We also noted that we needed more comfort breaks than the car needed to stop. Although the location and quantity of the chargers were not ideal, the navigation system did not route us out of our trip at all. The comment by my passengers was: "great trip and very comfortable".

 

[Menifeer]

First, the 5 min fill up is a bit of a myth. One often has to wait for a gas pump. Second, if you can't take a 20-30 min break in a 3-4h drive, you have my condolences. You can start you drive fully charged, and not detour to fill up before you pickup you sporting friends, and they gotta eat, no? Charging while you eat is great.

An EV does not need to fit into preconceived flow patterns :-/

Whether it's 5 minutes or 10, I doubt many people consider the refuel time of an ICE vehicle as a major issue.

I want to plan my trips based on my desires, not the needs of my car. If I feel a hankerin' for a Texas Roadhouse dinner while on a trip, but the Supercharger is at a Wendy's, I'll be disappointed.

Over time as more charging options emerge, those kinds of concerns will go away. But in the meantime, I believe most people will use the EV for daily driving and charging at home overnight.

 

[Saghost]

Whether it's 5 minutes or 10, I doubt many people consider the refuel time of an ICE vehicle as a major issue.

I want to plan my trips based on my desires, not the needs of my car. If I feel a hankerin' for a Texas Roadhouse dinner while on a trip, but the Supercharger is at a Wendy's, I'll be disappointed.

Over time as more charging options emerge, those kinds of concerns will go away. But in the meantime, I believe most people will use the EV for daily driving and charging at home overnight.

Well, if you'd rather regularly inhale known carcinogens, contribute to our trade imbalance, terrorism, and middle east instability, and increase both smog and global warming so that you won't be limited in your choice of restaurants while on a road trip, that's your prerogative.

It's your money and your life.

I'm just glad I was able to put together the financing to choose the other way, and pleased that it'll be an easier decision for folks in the future.

(One thing you might not have considered is that charging time is usually time spent doing other things even on a road trip, while gassing time is time out of your day to fill the car.)

 

[malcolm]

ROFLMAO

Can you hear a whoosh?

That, my friend is the sound of Bolt posters flying off the shelves and onto the walls of the nation's bedrooms!

 

[jgs]

Whether it's 5 minutes or 10, I doubt many people consider the refuel time of an ICE vehicle as a major issue.

I want to plan my trips based on my desires, not the needs of my car.

You already plan things that way, you just perceive your current tradeoff as not being a compromise for the same reason fish don't know the water exists.

Nonetheless even though you are wrong, wrong, wrong, you are still right that many members of the buying public will agree with your position until they have gotten their first EV.

 

[Menifeer]

You already plan things that way, you just perceive your current tradeoff as not being a compromise for the same reason fish don't know the water exists.

Nonetheless even though you are wrong, wrong, wrong, you are still right that many members of the buying public will agree with your position until they have gotten their first EV.

Not sure what you mean about planning the way I drive my ICE vehicle. I have never compromised my desires based on its needs. When the needle starts heading for "E", I pull off the road and fill up.

I'm not anti-EV. In fact, I've been an enthusiast longer than many (most?) people on this board have been drawing breath. I believe in the long-term viability and superiority of the technology, but it will be a while before the average buyer considers them a direct replacement for their gas-burner. Second car that never needs a fill-up away from home? Certainly!

 

[jgs]

Not sure what you mean about planning the way I drive my ICE vehicle. I have never compromised my desires based on its needs. When the needle starts heading for "E", I pull off the road and fill up.

Bingo. Were you planning on pulling off the road at that moment? Was that where you wanted to stop for some reason unrelated to fuel? If not, you are subservient to the fueling needs of your car. That's OK, it's totally fine, I'm just drawing attention to the fact that the ICE vehicle is not without its own compromises.

The much greater compromise, of course, is the fact you have to adjust your schedule to cater to its appetite for hydrocarbons even when you are parking it in your own garage every night. I see from your comments that you get this point.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I believe most people will use the EV for daily driving and charging at home overnight.

I think that assumption is only held by people who have not owned & driven a 200-mile range capable BEV.

You are absolutely right that there is some inconvenience in finding a Supercharger, unless your route happens to go right past one (definitely rarely the case in the UK!!). (And, as you said, that will change with time as more are rolled out).

In my dying ICE days I had Range Anxiety and Trip Planning Anxiety, along with Slower Trip Anxiety. All the points are correctly worried about, but in practice you adapt. I save time not fuelling my ICE. Sure its only in 5 & 10 minute chunks, here and there, but they are offset against road trip charging stops. On a road trip I may add time to my journey (which I might also do getting into a traffic jam ...), but I arrive far more refreshed than the old days when I would use Heroics to reach my destination in the shortest time possible.

Sitting at a Supercharger for 30 minutes, when I don't need to eat or pee, I can get on and do something. If it is just "chat to your car buddies", then of course you can do that on your move, so visiting a sporting event might be the worst corner-case, particularly if you rotate drivers every 2 hours, but IME I do 99% of the trip driving; wifee only alternates with me if we drive more than 4 hours out, and 4 hours back, in a day; and I am much more refreshed because of the enforced 30 minute stop every 2-3 hours. On a longer trip, with Family, we Pee and Eat at a stop, in which cases there is no time lost (including no time standing pumping fuel, and in a line to pay for it)

I read similar stores before I owned a BEV, and was sceptical that I too would adapt, but my "habits" have changed since owning a BEV. Might not be so for everyone (I'm an early adopter, and therefore a "fan boy" of course), but I think it will be for many/most.

 

[Reeler]

Members of this enthusiast interest group may feel differently, of course, but the major market for the next few years will be second cars. The general public still needs to be convinced that BEVs can meet their needs, and most 2-car families will realize that they can use one as the second car and never need to charge it away from home. Once they use it and realize its benefits, they will be inclined to become enthusiasts and recommend them to friends.

Many people (myself included) won't be comfortable with long-distance travel until the recharging situation improves. I can "recharge" my ICE car in about 5 minutes anywhere along the route of my choice. Having to plan a rout

Almost 7 years pure EV. I use public transport more and occasionally rent a car.