Octopus Energy Saving Sessions

[Stranger Dings]

Does anyone know how the Octopus ”Power Hour” energy saving sessions are actually calculated?

I’ve taken part in all of them, but the results just seem totally random.

I’ve had sessions where we’ve switched off as much as we can and gone out, only to be told that we didn’t manage to save anything.

Some sessions, we’ve made very small savings, Including one where virtually everything was switched off and the whole family was in another country.

One session I forgot it was happening despite signing up, only to be told I’d managed to save 93% of my normal usage and be credited with over £16 off!

I’ll continue to sign up for them and don’t really do it expecting to save much as we are already quite energy efficient. It all just seems so random.

 

[Pink Duck]

A bit like how they pocket the difference between £3/kWh and the £2.25/kWh the customers receive as Saving Sessions reward. The cost of administering, I’m sure.

However, I remain delighted that I can switch from importing to exporting to compensate for the absence of in-day adjustment.

 

[thewishy]

Turns out they're paying for Export using the Savings Sessions.
If, on average, for a 5-6pm savings session, with a £2.25 premium
- Your battery is empty by 5pm
- You typically use 1kWh during the peak time
- You hold your overnight IO charge for discharge that day
- You discharge at 3Kw between 5-6
- You moved dinner to 6.30pm

You get paid
- 1kWh for reduced use
- 3kWh for the export

And you pay
- £1.05p to use the grid instead of battery for 3kWh
- 10p of losses

And get paid
- £2.25 premium for the kWh you didn't use.
- £6.75 premium for the export
- 45p "standard rate" for the export

£1.15 of costs, £9.45 paid. More to be made with something which exports a little harder like a Powerwall. Worthwhile seeing if you can get exports turned on if you have a PW..

 

[Kansalis]

These sessions are not aimed at people with solar and/or battery storage, those that have them are likely already not drawing from the grid at peak times. The point is to reduce the peak time grid pressure from everyone else.

While I'm sure it's frustrating to not be able to take advantage of the sessions, those people are not the target audience.

 

[Pink Duck]

They are now inclusive of those with home energy storage though, having changed the baseline average formula to use (import - export). So storage owners can discharge during the Saving Session (like I suspect they used to) and be rewarded for it (provided they don’t currently).

 

[thewishy]

These sessions are not aimed at people with solar and/or battery storage, those that have them are likely already not drawing from the grid at peak times. The point is to reduce the peak time grid pressure from everyone else.

While I'm sure it's frustrating to not be able to take advantage of the sessions, those people are not the target audience.

The premium is paid on export, so they really are aiming at people with batteries... And of course, I'm happy to support the grid, even happier to be paid handsomely for it.

I've gone through the terms properly now, and a few bits of note.
- Average is across the last 60 days, which makes it a lot less easy to game. But if I don't turn my ASHP on, my batteries last until 9-10pm typically, which means it'll take some time for the impact of turning on the heating to work through into the average consumption. (But I still get paid for the export, which even with a SW panel, I've not been doing in any meaningful way after 5pm since August)
- No in day adjustment (no problem with that, was gamed to a ridiculous degree last winter)
- Savings sessions are default opt in (Edit - you need to opt in to Octoplus, but you don't need to opt in to each session after that). You need to opt in (for each session) for free power

 

[Pink Duck]

The key bit there is "up to 60 days", it was like that last time (in the BSC), but it was calculated using 10 similar-type days. The data fetch practicality at scale probably why. They might have just refined terms to match the BSC P376.

Have to opt into Octoplus to join Saving Sessions, then after that it is app-based notifications with opt-in per event for credit.

I’ll simply move my afternoon battery discharge to match the Saving Session time frame, has been set to 14:00–17:00 for a while now

 

[Zilla91]

Just spun the wheel of fortune on the site after signing up to Octopus and managed to win a total of 1600 points between 2 spins.

Never won anything before until now, might be worth giving it a try to see if they're being a bit more generous to those who signed up

 

[YYY2022]

Just spun the wheel of fortune on the site after signing up to Octopus and managed to win a total of 1600 points between 2 spins.

Never won anything before until now, might be worth giving it a try to see if they're being a bit more generous to those who signed up

Thanks for the heads up although I got 2 wins of 8 points each! Better than nothing and never won before!

 

[AndrewGR]

Just spun the wheel of fortune on the site after signing up to Octopus and managed to win a total of 1600 points between 2 spins.

Never won anything before until now, might be worth giving it a try to see if they're being a bit more generous to those who signed up

I too won 1600 points on 2 spins having signed up to Octoplus. Suspect the wheel is loaded!
I don’t think I’m going to be able to benefit from the savings sessions this year. I’ve installed batteries but I’m on a Feed In Tariff and that, I think, precludes any tariff that pays for export (other than the assumed 50% in the FIT). I’m not complaining though - my actual export is now minimal having previously been around 70-80% of generation.

 

[Pink Duck]

Ofgem has approved this year’s DFS proposal, starting Monday 30th Oct 2023.

 

[ACarneiro]

Every time I see DFS I always think of <Season of the Year> Sales on sofas and furniture

 

[Pink Duck]

Will be a strange one for me this year, now that I have solar and home battery install up and running. No more LED torch light.

 

[Columbo]

Been doing this for a few months now.

 

[Pink Duck]

Industry notification feed updated today at Demand Flexibility Service 2023/24 | ESO

This year appears the data feeds also come with email and/or SMS notification of change, rather useful

 

[Pink Duck]

Latest DFS procurement rules confirms that for those with at least 10 eligible days in the last 60 that the most recent 10 still get used for the arithmetic baseline. Plus baseline is calculated by subtracting export from import and may be negative.

 

[thewishy]

This table is quite helpful. There is some nuance around working days vs non-working days.
Not explicitly mentioned in this "easy reference table", but selected days can't be "event" days.
So, on average, you're looking back for 2 weeks, but any "event" days within the last 2 weeks will push that range a little wider

 

[phil4]

I notice talk of a 3 hour "in day adjustment", takes 6 half hour readings in the 3 hours preceding and then applies it thus:

In Day Adjustment = ∑j (Baselined Entity Metered Volume – Unadjusted Baseline Value) / 6

Baseline Value = Unadjusted Baseline Value + In Day Adjustment

So lets put some values in:
Unadjusted for me in normal use is 0kWh, and I can use say 20kW during the six readings (so

IDA = (60kWh - 0)/6 = 10kWh.
Baseline then is 0 + 10 kWh = 10kWh.

So looks like by abusing it, I could net 10kWh saved for each hour of the saving session.

But what would that cost?
60kWh at IO peak is £18.36

So to break even, the payout for the 10kWh would need to be £1.84 per kWh saved. That's a pretty high bar.

PS. I might have got the above very very wrong. For example, I'm assuming the /6 on the IDA, is across total used, not 6 half hour readings, averaged, but that'd still give about the same. Also, not factored in Export.

 

[Pink Duck]

In Day Adjustment has been ruled out of this winter’s Saving Sessions, per the Octopus T&Cs and also the DFS consultation outcome. So ignore that part.

 

[phil4]

In Day Adjustment has been ruled out of this winter’s Saving Sessions, per the Octopus T&Cs and also the DFS consultation outcome. So ignore that part.

Shame, had to get my calculator out for that

 

[ringi]

Plus baseline is calculated by subtracting export from import and may be negative.

Looks like the "payments for helping grid" could be lower for someone that exports everyday between 3pm-7pm them someone who only exports for saving sessions. Will that make Octopus Flex less good for some battery owners compared to IO?