One level 3 charger for both Tesla & other brands?

[Nate Finch]

I want to work with our town to get some chargers installed... the town's electric rate is half that of residents, so there's room for both sides to take advantage of it. However, level 2 chargers are generally so slow, it's barely worth the effort of plugging in unless you're planning to stick around for 2-3 hours.

I know there are level 3 chargers for other cars, like the Leaf.... is there a level 3 charger that could work for both Teslas and non-teslas? Googling around, it sorta sounds like Teslas really only support tesla superchargers and not the standardized level 3 chargers, is that true? Is there no way to have a level 3 that'll work for most everyone? (Mostly thinking Leafs and BMW i3's, since I know we have both in town).

 

[AEdennis]

I want to work with our town to get some chargers installed... the town's electric rate is half that of residents, so there's room for both sides to take advantage of it. However, level 2 chargers are generally so slow, it's barely worth the effort of plugging in unless you're planning to stick around for 2-3 hours.

I know there are level 3 chargers for other cars, like the Leaf.... is there a level 3 charger that could work for both Teslas and non-teslas? Googling around, it sorta sounds like Teslas really only support tesla superchargers and not the standardized level 3 chargers, is that true? Is there no way to have a level 3 that'll work for most everyone? (Mostly thinking Leafs and BMW i3's, since I know we have both in town).

The CHAdeMO adapter has been announced to work on 3 recently (North America) and, S, and X.

This works with the LEAF.

Most current manufacturers of Standards DCFC at the 50kW level support both CHAdeMO and CCS...

So that’s what you’re looking at. (FWIW on an s, 50kW is like 140-150 miles per hour of charging.

 

[MP3Mike]

Depends on where you are. But in NA Tesla supports CHAdeMO for the S&X, and will support it for the 3 as soon as they release 2019.24.x or newer firmware.

Of course the Tesla owner would have to have an expensive CHAdeMO adapter, unless the site bought one and tethered it to the charger. (other sites have done that.)

But even a BMW i3 and Leaf don't share the same Level 3 standard. (CCS and CHAdeMO respectively.) So the best bet would be to install a dual standard charger. (Which is very common.)

 

[Rocky_H]

But even a BMW i3 and Leaf don't share the same Level 3 standard. (CCS and CHAdeMO respectively.) So the best bet would be to install a dual standard charger. (Which is very common.)

That would definitely be the thing to do. There are several brands that make those dual cable charging stations. Basically it's one main charger inside, but it can output through one of those two cables at a time. Most EVs are going to CCS, but Nissan Leaf and Teslas (with an adapter) would still be able to use CHAdeMO.

 

[ewoodrick]

In general, no. It's either a Tesla Supercharger or a CHadeMO/CCS combo charger (aka DC Fast Charger) for everyone else.

I wouldn't discount a L2 charger. From a municipality viewpoint, they are a LOT cheaper to install and operate. They work well for people at work and they are a draw for local business, as people will shop while they charge. They can also be installed in multiple locations with multiple units at each location.
I believe that ALL EV and PHEV support the J-1772 adapter, DC fast charging is not supported by everyone, even some Leafs don't support DC fast charging.

With the significantly cheaper cost of J-1772 connections, it is even viable that these are provided at no cost around town, a general incentive to adopt electric. There's even been some European initiatives with L2 charging on light poles.

If you start charging for the charging, then the costs of installation goes up significantly, and a DC Fast charger (aka Supercharger) is significantly expensive.

Best option, electric utility and municipality put together a plan for municipal charging and then the utility promotes installation of home charging.

 

[srs5694]

I want to work with our town to get some chargers installed... the town's electric rate is half that of residents, so there's room for both sides to take advantage of it. However, level 2 chargers are generally so slow, it's barely worth the effort of plugging in unless you're planning to stick around for 2-3 hours.

Most utilities impose "demand charges" whenever a site begins drawing significantly more power than they usually do. Most DC fast charging installations will get hit by such charges, unless you pair the DC fast charger with big batteries that can trickle charge at a lower rate and then release the stored power at a faster rate into a car that uses the site. Adding the batteries adds to the up-front cost, though, and that up-front cost will be high for any DC fast charger, even without on-site battery storage. Thus, I'm not sure installing a DC fast charger would make economic sense for a small town. Level 2 EVSEs are much cheaper to install and to operate, and they're more-or-less universal. (Most EVs use J1772, Teslas being the exception; but Teslas all come with J1772 adapters, and so can use public J1772 EVSEs.) It's true that drivers won't get a lot of range by parking for, say, half an hour, but if the EVSE is located where people frequently park for a long time, such as near a movie theater, park, hotel, or business district (where people work), they can make as much or more sense than a DC fast charger.

Checking PlugShare, I see that there are Superchargers near Harvard, in Leominster (12 miles) and Hudson (11 miles); and there's a CHAdeMO station at a Nissan dealership in Lancaster (9 miles). The closest CCS station I see is a bit further, at Solomon Pond Mall in Marlboro (15 miles). By the usual standards of distance to DC fast charging, those distances are pretty good. Although I'm sure we'd all love to see DC fast chargers as convenient as gas stations are right now, my suspicion is that, unless the town has more money than it knows what to do with, or if there is a specific identified need, adding a few Level 2 EVSEs would make more sense than adding DC fast chargers. The key to the Level 2 option is finding the right location, where people are likely to want to park for at least an hour.

 

[Nate Finch]

If we could do Level 2 chargers for fairly cheap, that might be the best bet. It's not terribly useful for me, because I have a wall connector at home that already charges faster than a level 2 charger anyway. But I guess for those folks that didn't spring for the home charger, it's a lot better than a 120v outlet.

 

[Rocky_H]

I have a wall connector at home that already charges faster than a level 2 charger anyway.

The wall connector is a level 2 connector. Level 2 just means running from 208 or 240V. So anything from 12A to 80A is still level 2.

 

[jerry33]

I want to work with our town to get some chargers installed... the town's electric rate is half that of residents, so there's room for both sides to take advantage of it. However, level 2 chargers are generally so slow, it's barely worth the effort of plugging in unless you're planning to stick around for 2-3 hours.

I know there are level 3 chargers for other cars, like the Leaf.... is there a level 3 charger that could work for both Teslas and non-teslas? Googling around, it sorta sounds like Teslas really only support tesla superchargers and not the standardized level 3 chargers, is that true? Is there no way to have a level 3 that'll work for most everyone? (Mostly thinking Leafs and BMW i3's, since I know we have both in town).

There are adapters for CHAdeMO available for Tesla (the vehicle owner normally purchases them, but in some cases, where they can be controlled, the property owner has them available on request or for a small fee). A CCS adapter is in the works. However, it really depends on where you are putting them and what they're going to be used for. An L2 is much less expensive to install and if they are going to be in locations where people stay for awhile, it's better to put in many L2 rather than one L3. For long term parking (such as airport parking) L1 works fine and are very low cost to install.

 

[Nate Finch]

Ahh, I have only seen level 2s in the wild that do 20-25 miles per hour (30-ish amps maybe?).

I want something fast because we don't really have places in town that anyone would stay for a couple hours except rarely. I saw onea DC fast charger for $35k, which isn't that bad, but I guess I don't know how much it would cost to get installed.