Ontario overnight ultra low rate announced

[wayner]

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

The rate will be $0.024/kWh but it will come with higher peak rates.

The new optional Ultra-Low Overnight price plan provides:

• Ultra-low overnight rate of 2.4 cents per kWh: everyday 11 p.m.-7 a.m.
• Mid-peak rates of 10.2 cents per kWh: weekdays 7 a.m.-4 p.m. and 9 p.m.-11 p.m.
• On-peak rates of 24.0 cents per kWh: weekdays 4 p.m.-9 p.m.
• Weekend off-peak rates of 7.4 cents per kWh: weekends and statutory holidays 7 a.m.-11 p.m.

 

[SilverGS]

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

The rate will be $0.024/kWh but it will come with higher peak rates.

The new optional Ultra-Low Overnight price plan provides:

• Ultra-low overnight rate of 2.4 cents per kWh: everyday 11 p.m.-7 a.m.
• Mid-peak rates of 10.2 cents per kWh: weekdays 7 a.m.-4 p.m. and 9 p.m.-11 p.m.
• On-peak rates of 24.0 cents per kWh: weekdays 4 p.m.-9 p.m.
• Weekend off-peak rates of 7.4 cents per kWh: weekends and statutory holidays 7 a.m.-11 p.m.

I guess we'll see the option to sign up for this soon. I just checked my Oakville Hydro account and can't figure out how to sign up for it.

 

[wayner]

I was going to see if it makes sense for me to sign up for this. It might make less sense in the summer if you have an AC going harder during the day than at night.

 

[Esan na]

Thanks for sharing this, time to start calculating and comparing to the new rate

 

[Esan na]

I was going to see if it makes sense for me to sign up for this. It might make less sense in the summer if you have an AC going harder during the day than at night.

Not sure if you can do this but would it make sense to use the current rates during the summer and use the new rates during winter

Update: I used their calculator and compared my winter and summer usage with EV charging mostly overnight and It seems like the new rates are $10-20 cheaper for my usage all year round

 

[wayner]

Anyone know what the cost of a Powerwall is these days? Given the $0.216 price differential between Peak and Ultra-low you would be able to save $2.92 per day by charging a 13.5kWh Powerwall at the cheap price and using during peak. At 250 days per year that gets you close to a saving of $750/year.

 

[Esan na]

Anyone know what the cost of a Powerwall is these days? Given the $0.216 price differential between Peak and Ultra-low you would be able to save $2.92 per day by charging a 13.5kWh Powerwall at the cheap price and using during peak. At 250 days per year that gets you close to a saving of $750/year.

They don’t sell powerwall in Canada I believe.

 

[johnny_cakes]

Wow, that's a crazy low off-peak rate. There's a TOU proposal in BC where I live but it's nowhere near as drastic as your proposal in ON.

 

[andy00778]

I was on an experimental rate similar to this a few yers ago with Alectra. At the time the night time rate was about 2 cents, daytime rate was high. We charged the car at night, ran the dryer and AC hard at night. The cold house in the morning mostly carried us thru the hot day. Savings were about $5-10 per month.

Being retired and thus home much of the day we switched to the tiered rate system which offered much more convenience of using power and only a few times did we exceed the allowable energy at the low rate.

The power bill shows what the bill would be under the different rate systems so it’s easy to compare, so I assume this will happen when this new rate system is implemented.

 

[wayner]

I did some analysis on this and switching to the ultra-low rate is a no brainer. The only time that I can think of is if you had high usage at peak. As I see it here are the rates:

Period	Ultra-low	TOU
Overnight	$ 0.024	$ 0.074
Mid-Peak	$ 0.102	$ 0.102
On-peak	$ 0.240	$ 0.151
Weekend day	$ 0.074	$ 0.074

I looked at my usage and I typically use about 50% of my electricity during the overnight period. So in the new pricing regime about 85% of my usage that is currently off-peak will be in the overnight period and and 15% will be weekend day. But the weekend day rate is not going up.

My electricity usage is very high. I have an EV, a large house with a swimming pool with a pump that runs from late May to early October, a hot tub, two Air Conditioners, two NatGas furnaces, and two on-demand NatGas water heaters. My calculation is that I will save an average of $82 per month. That is about a 20% saving on my average monthly bill of about $400.

Here is a chart of my monthly usage by type over the last year:

I estimate that 85% of the current off-peak (green) usage will go to overnight and 15% will stay as off-peak at the same rate.
(edit - sorry, for some reason the image won't show up. Don't know why)

 

[wayner]

Looks like I can no longer edit my post above, so here is the image that I was trying to post:

 

[richyrich]

I guess there had to be a catch with the higher peak rates.

Pity Hydro One, the largest in ON (twice the customers of Toronto Hydro) have nothing to say despite years to get ready for this. Useless.

 

[Esan na]

I guess there had to be a catch with the higher peak rates.

Pity Hydro One, the largest in ON (twice the customers of Toronto Hydro) have nothing to say despite years to get ready for this. Useless.

I believe they said they have to offer it within 6 months

“Starting May 1, 2023, customers of Toronto Hydro, London Hydro, Centre Wellington Hydro, Hearst Power, Renfrew Hydro, Wasaga Distribution, and Sioux Lookout Hydro can opt-in to this new optional electricity price plan, with all utilities required to offer it to customers within six months.”

 

[richyrich]

I believe they said they have to offer it within 6 months

“Starting May 1, 2023, customers of Toronto Hydro, London Hydro, Centre Wellington Hydro, Hearst Power, Renfrew Hydro, Wasaga Distribution, and Sioux Lookout Hydro can opt-in to this new optional electricity price plan, with all utilities required to offer it to customers within six months.”

Great, except they've had 14 months since this was first mooted to prepare, they knew it was coming. If you've had any involvement with Hydro One, you know what a lethargic, over-priced and unhelpful organization they are so it's no surprise. We need more real choice so we can pay lower bills to more efficient companies and have a proper market for electricity billing and services.

 

[Bitjockey]

They don’t sell powerwall in Canada I believe.

Back in 2018 I got my 1st Powerwall via MPower Energy who were distributors for Canada. Installed via an authorized dealer from Huntsville.
Looks like they still distribute them:
MPOWER Energy Solutions | Certified Installer of Tesla Powerwall

 

[Soul Surfer]

Would the rates be affected by region as well? Just asking.

 

[wayner]

Great, except they've had 14 months since this was first mooted to prepare, they knew it was coming. If you've had any involvement with Hydro One, you know what a lethargic, over-priced and unhelpful organization they are so it's no surprise. We need more real choice so we can pay lower bills to more efficient companies and have a proper market for electricity billing and services.

If they already have meters capable of TOU then shouldn't this be very easy to do? You are just introducing a fourth rate class to go alongside the existing three and applying this rate class on the 11pm-7am time slot for every day. (I am on Toronto so I am assuming that H1's pricing is like Toronto Hydro's for TOU)

I agree with you about having choice, but Transmission and Distribution are the two areas of the electricity sector where we will never have choice as they are textbook examples of monopolies. Guess what areas Hydro One operates in?

Generation is the one area where competition makes sense.

But remember one thing - since electricity came to Ontario about 120 years ago the Ontario government has continually screwed around in the market for political reasons and has continued to do so in recent years. Enough people in the province are dumb enough to want a rebate on their electricity bill which is then paid for by the provincial government. These seem to prefer paying from their left pocket instead of their right pocket, and want to remove economic incentives to conserve power - what I am talking about here is the rebates on our electricity bill.

 

[richyrich]

If they already have meters capable of TOU then shouldn't this be very easy to do? You are just introducing a fourth rate class to go alongside the existing three and applying this rate class on the 11pm-7am time slot for every day. (I am on Toronto so I am assuming that H1's pricing is like Toronto Hydro's for TOU)

I agree with you about having choice, but Transmission and Distribution are the two areas of the electricity sector where we will never have choice as they are textbook examples of monopolies. Guess what areas Hydro One operates in?

Generation is the one area where competition makes sense.

But remember one thing - since electricity came to Ontario about 120 years ago the Ontario government has continually screwed around in the market for political reasons and has continued to do so in recent years. Enough people in the province are dumb enough to want a rebate on their electricity bill which is then paid for by the provincial government. These seem to prefer paying from their left pocket instead of their right pocket, and want to remove economic incentives to conserve power - what I am talking about here is the rebates on our electricity bill.

This is why I mentioned billing and services specifically - that costs a lot and they aren’t very good at it. Expecting one monster organization to do it all isn’t a great idea. This is how these nationalized organizations were split up to allow competition in Western Europe.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Wow, that's a crazy low off-peak rate. There's a TOU proposal in BC where I live but it's nowhere near as drastic as your proposal in ON.

It may seem so, but I wish someone from "La Belle Province" (Québec), would weigh in. They have not only had one of the highest EV adoption rates in the country (per capita), but also way lower hydro rates. Ontario, on the other hand, is the polar opposite.

 

[wayner]

Quebec has strong provincial government control over the electricity sector via their ownership of Quebec Hydro. Both Quebec and Ontario have had very heavy government influence over the electrical sector and depending on your point of view this is a good or a bad thing. Are the electrical prices in Quebec truly reflective of the cost of generating, transmitting and distributing the power, or are they politically driven?

I have heard a story that the reason that Ontario Hydro built its headquarters on the corner of College and University was so that the Lords (the executives of Ontario Hydro) could keep a close eye on their minions (the Premier and the rest of the Ontario government).