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Ontario Ultra Low Overnight rates are now live
- Thread starter wayner
- Start date
It depends on your usage patterns. You are correct that you are paying 9 cents more during peak, but if you use much more power overnight then you should save. And the definition of peak is different for Ultra Low(ULO) as it is weekdays 4-9, vs weekdays 11-5 for TOU. So the peak period is five hours per day with ULO vs six hours per day on TOU.
Not for those of us with the biggest provider in the province - Hydro One! You’d think with over a year of notice they’d have the resources to be right on it.
Falkirk
Member
I'm waiting for mine to offer it too. My stats show over 450kWh used in the last month so the savings should be there. There's a calculator online to compare the various plans to help decide which is best (Bill calculator | Ontario Energy Board).
I don't know how accurate that calculator will be as it seems to be making a ton of assumptions behind the scene. The other problem with estimating your bill under ULO is that the peak time has changed. So even if you load in your Peak, Shoulder and Off-peak from the last year under TOU it wouldn't exactly correspond to your bill under ULO. At least it won't in Toronto. You would have to pull your hourly data and do the calculation that way.
Yeah the 60% increase in peak time rates if you go ULO is a big gotcha - it offsets a lot of those overnight savings. Based on my calcs (and we drive a lot) I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of switching - suddenly having to be way more careful about peak daytime usage (peak also changes to 4-9pm on ULO) just doesn't seem worth the bother.
I’m retired and use about 200-350 kW/month. With the peak time change and increase I see no value in the switch for us. Great though for a daily longer distance commuter.
We would also be about break even on a tiered plan plus or minus a few bucks as well so will just stay TOU.
We would also be about break even on a tiered plan plus or minus a few bucks as well so will just stay TOU.
The cynic in me says ULO has been very carefully design to appear to do something useful without significantly impacting revenues for the electricity companies. The simple fact is that us saving money is them losing revenue. What we really need is proper competition on the delivery/administration side - that could force some efficiencies and savings.
Delivery involves a whole lot more than just wires. You split it up and don't have one vast dinosaur organization doing everything.
Here's the split in the UK market:
I ran the numbers myself, its not even worth the switch. Maybe with two EVs, then yes.
Here is a heatmap of pricing comparing TOU to ULOW for Toronto Hydro for Summer 2023. Under ULOW you are paying more on peak - a LOT more from 5pm - 9pm - more than double. But you are paying much less overnight seven days per week and from 11am-4pm. And with ULOW you are always better on weekends and holidays as you save $0.05/kWh during the nights and pay the same during the days.
I pulled my hourly data for the last week and by my calculations my charge would be $75.58 on TOU and $71.70 on ULOW. I paid a bit more on two days with ULOW - both weekdays.
One additional note - if you used 1kWh every hour of every day then you would pay $16.14 on TOU and $15.32 on ULOW each week. On TOU you would pay $2.52 on weekdays and $1.78 on weekends. On ULOW you would pay $2.51 on weekdays and $1.38 on weekends.
I pulled my hourly data for the last week and by my calculations my charge would be $75.58 on TOU and $71.70 on ULOW. I paid a bit more on two days with ULOW - both weekdays.
One additional note - if you used 1kWh every hour of every day then you would pay $16.14 on TOU and $15.32 on ULOW each week. On TOU you would pay $2.52 on weekdays and $1.78 on weekends. On ULOW you would pay $2.51 on weekdays and $1.38 on weekends.
I've just come to realize that having solar panels and net metering will further complicate this consideration as credits generated from excess solar during peak solar production are higher on TOU than on the ultra low overnight plan.
As I just got my car last weekend I think I need to get a solid month or 2 under my belt on the standard TOU plan then compare before I look at switching over if or when it becomes available.
As I just got my car last weekend I think I need to get a solid month or 2 under my belt on the standard TOU plan then compare before I look at switching over if or when it becomes available.
Yes, that will complicate things. But ULOW may be even better because your net usage will be lower during the daytime when peak hours occur. But the shift in peak pricing from 11-5 to 4-9 will not help as you probably produce a lot more solar power from 11-5 than from 4-9. But it can depend on where you live - Windsor would be better than Cornwall as the sun sets 30 minutes later. The only times that you pay more under ULOW is 4-9 on weekdays. Any other time of the week you pay the same, or less. See the heat map up above.
FYI - I have panels as well, but I am on microFIT rather than net metering. So I just get paid $0.38/kWh for my production under the 2015 microFIT price.
Here is the price savings per hour of ULOW vs TOU for both weeknds and weekdays.
FYI - I have panels as well, but I am on microFIT rather than net metering. So I just get paid $0.38/kWh for my production under the 2015 microFIT price.
Here is the price savings per hour of ULOW vs TOU for both weeknds and weekdays.
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UncleCreepy
Member
At least with HydroOne there is also the issue that they mask the true price for electricity. Yes, the ultra low peak rate is very low, but there's still the delivery fee which is not subject to TOU, so the actual price difference at the end of the month is probably not what you'd expect. Those fixed fees are quite high, i.e. last month I paid more than twice as much for delivery as for electricity.
Just take a look at Hydro One and explain to me what I'm paying per kWh. This billing system is about as complicated as it gets. I wish they could just tell me what my monthly fixed amount is (and by that I mean a number, not a novel) and how much I really pay per kWh. I once took my bill and tried to understand how they calculated the total amount but gave up after two hours.
I'll just keep things the way they are now. I barely ever charge at home anyways and at currently about $70/month I'm not too worried about hydro costs.
Just take a look at Hydro One and explain to me what I'm paying per kWh. This billing system is about as complicated as it gets. I wish they could just tell me what my monthly fixed amount is (and by that I mean a number, not a novel) and how much I really pay per kWh. I once took my bill and tried to understand how they calculated the total amount but gave up after two hours.
I'll just keep things the way they are now. I barely ever charge at home anyways and at currently about $70/month I'm not too worried about hydro costs.
I agree regarding the delivery fee, but that isn't relevant when comparing the difference in monthly cost between the two rates. Let's say you pay $0.10/kWh for all of those other charges - you will pay that same amount per kWh no matter whether you are on TOU or ULOW. So I am ignoring the delivery fees.
$70/month is super cheap. I average about $450/month in the winter and $650/month in the summer. But I have a big house with an EV, two ACs, two furnaces, a pool, a hot tub, multiple fridges, etc.
$70/month is super cheap. I average about $450/month in the winter and $650/month in the summer. But I have a big house with an EV, two ACs, two furnaces, a pool, a hot tub, multiple fridges, etc.
UncleCreepy
Member
No argument there, the delivery fees will apply no matter what. What I meant was that the cost for electricity is only a fraction of the overall bill. Before the Ontario Electricity Rebate rebate and HST I paid $22.55 for electricity and $47.27 for delivery, plus another $1.75 for regulatory charges last month. Even if electricity was free, I'd still be paying the other $49.02. In other words, a 30% reduction in electricity costs will not even remotely result in a 30% reduced hydro bill. The savings are much lower than they appear at first when you just look at the electricity rates.
I guess charging an EV on solar during peak production, even though giving up higher net metering credit rates, may be equal to (or less than) waiting to charge at a lower time of use rate because - in theory - if you're charging off your own excess solar you're saving the delivery charges on that consumption. My brain hurts.
