Open Center Console

[Larry Chanin]

I don't have much in my current door pockets but the wife uses here as a trash can. Since there is no time to fix any of this, I bet Tesla adds all these suggestions on next years model.

We put fold-up umbrellas in the door pockets and yes, the little woman uses her passenger side pocket also as a trash can.

I agreed that there is not time to fix this, especially for the Signature reservation holders. I foresee that there will be an up-tick in defections as some of the early adopters realize that soon it will be time to shell out a lot more dough than they have ever considered in the past. These folks will blame the lack of interior storage space for their decision to get back their deposit.

Once we get past the initial ranks of rabid EV enthusiasts and early adopters, and rely on well-healed, "normal" folks to purchase the Model S, if they don't have the necessary bragging rights for the interior to show their rich friends, then they simply won't buy it. This lack of intelligently designed interior storage space is a very serious issue "down the road" when Tesla is attempting to sell more than 20,000 cars per year. The same issue will apply to the Model X when they try to hit their 15,000 planned cars per year.

Larry

 

[AnOutsider]

Once we get past the initial ranks of rabid EV enthusiasts and early adopters, and rely on well-healed, "normal" folks to purchase the Model S, if they don't have the necessary bragging rights for the interior to show their rich friends, then they simply won't buy it. This lack of intelligently designed interior storage space is a very serious issue "down the road" when Tesla is attempting to sell more than 20,000 cars per year. The same issue will apply to the Model X when they try to hit their 15,000 planned cars per year.

Larry

I agree, except I think it won't only be the rich, it'll be those buying up from their usual price class that can't justify spending more for something that they may perceive as less.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I agree, except I think it won't only be the rich, it'll be those buying up from their usual price class that can't justify spending more for something that they may perceive as less.

I guess "rich" is a relative term. :smile:

Yes, the point I was making is that many folks that are not EV enthusiasts who purchase a car over $50,000 are dealing with the "show-off" factor. As you point out this is particularly true for folks stretching their budgets. When showing their high priced car to their friends ideally they want to be able to demonstrate how superior the car is in all respects to justify their expediture. They don't want to hear their friends saying, "Yes, very nice, but where do you store your sunglasses? My much less expensive car has interior storage for my stuff."

Larry

 

[Charged_Up]

Larry....

It's not just the show off factor- some of us intend to keep the car for a long time - and good industrial design is a combination of good looks, new features, and useability. I remember my first car- a red Honda accord - came in only three colors and was pretty spartan. But it had a dedicated pocket for change and some wonderful ergonomics in the interior compared to similar u.s. cars. Andvofvcourse it was about $4100 with options.

Tesla has just missed the mark in usability in the interior, some of which can be remedied in aftermarket - but why should it have to be? I put up $$ for a sig reservation and it turns out that the benefits disclosed so far are that I get to pay a premium for a similarly equipped p model - I may not get an option to test drive the car before spending $100k, and I get to spend additional money to fix a couple of stupidly basic design flaws In the interior (is it really possible that the engineer who designed the armrest/cup holder actually sat in the car???). But If I keep the reservation, I get to be a functional beta tester for $100k. That wasn't really what I was thinking about when I made my reservation.

Do I admire what tesla is trying to do? Absolutely. Do I love the idea of electric cars and the benefits to society ? Absolutely. Am I overjoyed at the "customer experience" so far and the communications from the company? Absolutely not.

 

[MitchL]

Am I overjoyed at the "customer experience" so far and the communications from the company? Absolutely not.

Hmm. I _am_ overjoyed by the customer experience so far and the communications (then again, I haven't been waiting as long as many of you... and I'm sure you super early folks feel like you've been waiting a lifetime).

I think it's absolutely crazy that Tesla not only shows pictures of prototype cars to customers (and competitors), but also puts them in dealerships and lets people sit in them and play with them, even though they're not done.

I'm trying to remember the last time I got to actually tinker with a prototype from the Big 3, or any of the European or Japanese manufacturers...

Showing their cards so early is a risky move on Tesla's part, but it also helps keep the interest and excitement going at the risk of showing things that many people would conclude are sub-par. They're hoping we will understand.

Having the privilege of watching a prototype evolve into a product is (from my point of view) excellent communication. I hope that Tesla learns a lot watching us hash out our observations and desires. Tesla is trying very hard, I'm sure, to balance what their dreams are with what they can actually build, right now, on time and on budget, and show the shareholders and the board that they really can build a car. The 2013, 2014, 2015 Model S will undoubtably have features that didn't make it into 2012.

Getting back on topic: I voted "I don't care." I'm tired of trying to decide if I "like" the console or not (my Odyssey doesn't have one, the wife's RX300 does), so I give up on fretting over it. I want a _real_ car that happens to be electric, something I can replace 90% of my driving with. I am confident that I will get a real electric car whether or not I have a place to keep my sunglasses when the car is delivered to me.

/Mitch.

 

[dsm363]

Not really a fair comparison since it's way out of the Model S price range but just got into my Jetta for the first time in a long time and looked at the console. It does have places on the doors for maps but the center console has a small cubby hole area like the Roadster does (I assume where the ash tray used to go) and a very small space in the arm rest which I hear the Model S doesn't have. It should be relatively trivial for the Model S to at least add a small area towards the front of the console space to place items in at least.

I agree with Mitch. No other company would give people this much access to the process. I've been very pleased with Tesla so far. While I don't agree with all of their decisions, I think the Model S will be a great first step.

 

[Kipernicus]

I also noticed that the lower dash to the left of the steering wheel was completely blank - no switches, no storage. Perhaps that area is jam packed with electronics, but if not, that would be a nice inconspicuous place for a junk drawer or sunglass cubby.

This morning my wife had to drive her sister and parents to the airport. Since there was no space up front for her purse, she put it in the back seat. At the airport her mom left with my wife's purse, thinking it was the sister's! I thought if she were in the S and put her purse in the center console space this would never have happened! (luckily she was boxed in by a taxi and her mom ran back to return the purse)

 

[Larry Chanin]

Larry....

It's not just the show off factor- some of us intend to keep the car for a long time - and good industrial design is a combination of good looks, new features, and useability. I remember my first car- a red Honda accord - came in only three colors and was pretty spartan. But it had a dedicated pocket for change and some wonderful ergonomics in the interior compared to similar u.s. cars. Andvofvcourse it was about $4100 with options.

Tesla has just missed the mark in usability in the interior, some of which can be remedied in aftermarket - but why should it have to be? I put up $$ for a sig reservation and it turns out that the benefits disclosed so far are that I get to pay a premium for a similarly equipped p model - I may not get an option to test drive the car before spending $100k, and I get to spend additional money to fix a couple of stupidly basic design flaws In the interior (is it really possible that the engineer who designed the armrest/cup holder actually sat in the car???). But If I keep the reservation, I get to be a functional beta tester for $100k. That wasn't really what I was thinking about when I made my reservation.

Do I admire what tesla is trying to do? Absolutely. Do I love the idea of electric cars and the benefits to society ? Absolutely. Am I overjoyed at the "customer experience" so far and the communications from the company? Absolutely not.

Hi,

I certainly appreciate your point of view in particular since you had more at risk being an early Signature reservation holder. Please refer to my posting in the "The Big Picture" thread on the official Tesla forum which attempts to suggest that there might reason to hope for a more positive outcome for early Signature reservation holders.

Larry

 

[Charged_Up]

Larry...

I don't mean to be over the top on this - I'm still interested, but getting somewhat frustrated - each time I've chatted with Tesla they express interest, ask permission to kick my suggestion upstairs, and then that's the last I ever hear of it. Now we're getting reports that people are being asked to finalize orders etc and a) nobody's driven the car, b) nobody has definitively said "here is what we're doing about the interior issues that have been raised"; c) we've heard zero about safety tests or rc vehicles and, d) its getting hard to believe they will meet their timetable. I've always said in our business (and its true in most) that the one thing that drives customers or prospects crazy is a lack of communication - sometimes it can be sufficient for someone to say - "look, we are aware of your questions, we're working on answers; and we should be able to tell you by xx/xx/xx." Look at the product manager who says, "we're not changing the floor tray" and five minutes later George B says, "well we may offer something later" - someone would appear to be wrong - but who? Look at design studio - "coming this winter" - don't you think Tesla should have put out a notice to people saying "guys, our software guys screwed up, we are a little behind in finalizing interior configurations, and we should have a fully configured website up and running no later than April 1" or whenever. I don't mind attempts to underpromise and overdeliver - we do that all the time. It just feels like they are dribbling out information because it is a mass of confusion internally and maybe nobody really knows? I just feel like Tesla is asking early adopters to take a leap of faith, which is okay at a much lower and much less ambitious price point. But when you are trying to pull customers from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc, and at a *higher* price point, you would think that you would really be making efforts to communicate your successes and failures - and that's where my "irked" factor is coming from....

 

[bonnie]

Hot topic.

 

[NigelM]

Hot topic.

I had a feeling it was and that's why I started this thread/poll. I want a family EV and that is over-riding for me; but Tesla also needs to recognize that they are pulling many customers from other marques and so need to decide which issues they will address (or not). Tesla will get a lot of people to make major changes in their driving habits, there's some seemingly "small" issues that can have a big impact on people's habits and therefore their acceptance of the Model S.

P.S. Is that pic: a) part of your new product line? b) Tesla employees after reading TMC for too long? c) a new silicon valley game/sport? or d) a new interrogation technique?

 

[bonnie]

(Tesla employees after reading this thread.)

 

[AnOutsider]

Larry...

I don't mean to be over the top on this - I'm still interested, but getting somewhat frustrated - each time I've chatted with Tesla they express interest, ask permission to kick my suggestion upstairs, and then that's the last I ever hear of it. Now we're getting reports that people are being asked to finalize orders etc and a) nobody's driven the car, b) nobody has definitively said "here is what we're doing about the interior issues that have been raised"; c) we've heard zero about safety tests or rc vehicles and, d) its getting hard to believe they will meet their timetable. I've always said in our business (and its true in most) that the one thing that drives customers or prospects crazy is a lack of communication - sometimes it can be sufficient for someone to say - "look, we are aware of your questions, we're working on answers; and we should be able to tell you by xx/xx/xx." Look at the product manager who says, "we're not changing the floor tray" and five minutes later George B says, "well we may offer something later" - someone would appear to be wrong - but who? Look at design studio - "coming this winter" - don't you think Tesla should have put out a notice to people saying "guys, our software guys screwed up, we are a little behind in finalizing interior configurations, and we should have a fully configured website up and running no later than April 1" or whenever. I don't mind attempts to underpromise and overdeliver - we do that all the time. It just feels like they are dribbling out information because it is a mass of confusion internally and maybe nobody really knows? I just feel like Tesla is asking early adopters to take a leap of faith, which is okay at a much lower and much less ambitious price point. But when you are trying to pull customers from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc, and at a *higher* price point, you would think that you would really be making efforts to communicate your successes and failures - and that's where my "irked" factor is coming from....

I'm not even sure where to begin with this... Roadster owners may have paid more and had to take a bigger leap of faith. There are only RUMORS that people are being asked to finalize, and if they are true they're founders whom likely have way more info than we do. As for dribbling out info, we have WAY more info than pre orderers of the leaf or any other car by most major manufacturers. Not sure what safety and RC vehicles have to do with the interior discussion, but considering the last estimate we got was that RCs would come I'm April, I don't get the gripe.

I think Tesla has been way more open and communicative than any other car manufacturer I've ever dealt with. I think there's just a lot of antsy-ness (crankiness?) going on here (which seems to be typical after every time new info gets posted). Take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

 

[bonnie]

I'm not even sure where to begin with this... Roadster owners may have paid more and had to take a bigger leap of faith. There are only RUMORS that people are being asked to finalize, and if they are true they're founders whom likely have way more info than we do. As for dribbling out info, we have WAY more info than pre orderers of the leaf or any other car by most major manufacturers. Not sure what safety and RC vehicles have to do with the interior discussion, but considering the last estimate we got was that RCs would come I'm April, I don't get the gripe.

I think Tesla has been way more open and communicative than any other car manufacturer I've ever dealt with. I think there's just a lot of antsy-ness (crankiness?) going on here (which seems to be typical after every time new info gets posted). Take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Amen. My personal experience has been that Tesla comes through on commitments to their customers.

 

[dsm363]

Their service has been excellent. I can't think of another company where I've been able to e-mail a person I know (not a generic customer service e-mail) and get a response in hours to a day at most.

I agree. At least let them release their release candidate and what their plans are for accessories for the center console area (maybe you'll get to pick one for free, who knows at this point) before things go off the rails any further.

 

[Charged_Up]

Well, maybe I am just having a bad hair day. It happens.

But something inside my little brain says there is something wrong with communications when I go from feeling thrilled at having one of the first electric "luxury" sedans to feeling like maybe I'm going to end of deferring my slot because of a lack of information. Even worse is where my excitement and desire to be evangelical with others about electrics and Tesla in general is waning - and that should be a direct shot across the bow to the company because I am not typically a "first adopter of tech (early-yes, first-no) and I am willing to pay up for something "close" to the feeling of a true luxury vehicle in electric form. Believe me when I say at this price the Model S Signature is not an economic decision particularly because i don't drive that much these days - it's a lifestyle issue, a national security issue, an environmental issue - all of those things. It's just that nobody wants to feel sandbagged when Tesla's goal from the beginning was to say we can do it as well as the big boys in Germany in all aspects, and with a much better drivetrain. So I guess I am saying that I'm just not getting enough hugs - or something metaphorically similar - from the big T.

 

[bonnie]

It's hard to maintain the same level of excitement that was generated at the Model S event. And it's been a long wait. Hang in there.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

We might all be suffering from 'overexposure' in general; I know, we are all so involved probably with good reason - high-priced car, startup company, new technology, new factory and so on.

I need to get away from TMC for a few days myself; wife's getting super-annoyed

 

[Lyon]

I'm going to have to abstain on this one. Unfortunately, just like a poll going on at the official TM forum, this poll leaves out an important 3rd option. I love the open center console idea, however, the fact that Model S has NO enclosed interior storage area that's within easy reach of the driver (sorry, I don't count the glovebox) I would like to see some kind of redesign. I'm left wanting A and B.

As I said over there, I don't think that the options have to be mutually exclusive.

On the TM forum I added an option C and then got yelled at for it. In any event, the format of the poll here makes it more difficult to add another option.

 

[Doug_G]

As I've said before, I prefer the large open storage area. I think it'll be very handy. It will be the place where we will throw miscellaneous things we're carrying like takeout food containers, small purchases, etc. My wife will put a Kleenex box in there, so I'll probably find a black plastic one and Velcro it down to the carpet. I might even Velcro a little trash bin in there.

That said, there are a few things that are really needed (and a comparison my two existing cars):

• A convenient holder for sunglasses. I can't be reaching down next to my feet to find my glasses that have rolled around somewhere in the bin. [In my Roadster I can reach the glove compartment easily - not so in the Model S. My G37 has a flip-down glasses holder up by the sunroof - works very well.]
  
• A handy little bin to hold change for tolls (for road trips into the USA). It needs to be shallow and wide enough that you can pick up the change. [Big fail on my G37 - has appropriate nooks but you can't get the coins out of them. Roadster is better but you'd have to really control your right foot or they'll be permanently lost under the seat...]
  
• Better cup holders. The Model S console cup holders look too high and too far back - I have a feeling that acrobatics will be required to pick up your drink. They're also too close together; you won't be able to fit two Starbucks Venti drinks in there without them interfering (yes we are addicts). [Complete fail on the Roadster of course; better positioning on the G37 but also too close together.]

Mind you, I don't recall ever driving a car that succeeded on all three of these very basic items. I think my old Nissan Murano was the closest; the cup holders were great and it also had the sunglasses holder. It also had a couple of big open storage areas on top of the dashboard (of all places) and despite being shallow they were very handy. That's why I'm very open to the big bin.