P3D horsepower?

[Knightshade]

I have to admit, there’s only so much BS I can put up with

I guess that means you'll stop posting it?

You've been shown evidence from Tesla, from professional car mags calibrated testing, and from actual tesla owners calibrated testing- all proving the facts you keep trying to deny.

You're trolling. And poorly.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I have to admit, there’s only so much BS I can put up with. Tesla is currently not admitting to any such thing (whether they do it or don’t is a different argument). Your skewed narrative does nobody any favors, and just spreads misinformation, as if there isn’t enough of that out there already...

1 foot rollout is required to get the advertised 0-60 for the P3D.
1 foot rollout is not required to get the advertised 0-60 on the AWD.
In the past Tesla had an asterisk on their website saying they use 1 foot rollout for a Performance model.
Do we at a least all agree on this?

 

[Nocturnal]

It's software controlling most every aspect of the car (appart from the suspension). This applies both to the AWD and the P.

Yes but I was meaning that it's an arbitrary curve rather than the software following the physical limits of the motor/inverter.

Yep, that's why it is unusual. I think it would be hard to find a similar example of a car's capability being purposely suppressed to this degree by any manufacturer outside of Tesla.

It's because they can. To be fair there are plenty of examples of similar things. For example, the same engine was used in the 4th gen F-body cars as the 5th gen corvettes but they had different horsepower ratings. Most of that was physical, but it was an intentional limitation on the cheaper cars. There wasn't any cost savings in hamstringing the lower model LS1 cars, but they did things like use less efficient intake manifolds etc.

Tesla could have used a different motor setup or something but the net cost would be higher for everyone. ​

 

[NOLADriver]

I love this thread. Such delightful banter.

 

[WilliamG]

I guess that means you'll stop posting it?

You've been shown evidence from Tesla, from professional car mags calibrated testing, and from actual tesla owners calibrated testing- all proving the facts you keep trying to deny.

You're trolling. And poorly.

For the last time, please show me where Tesla currently states their times are with or without rollout. Showing me a screenshot from another user for a car that doesn’t even exist anymore is not evidence.

Again, I’m not questioning whether rollout is being used or not. I’m questioning your lack of evidence when directly accusing Tesla today. So, if your next response does not cite a source at Tesla today, just stop.

 

[WilliamG]

1 foot rollout is required to get the advertised 0-60 for the P3D.
1 foot rollout is not required to get the advertised 0-60 on the AWD.
In the past Tesla had an asterisk on their website saying they use 1 foot rollout for a Performance model.
Do we at a least all agree on this?

Perhaps. I’ve seen some pretty amazing 0-60 times with no rollout, though, from other users. So I wouldn’t put money on this.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Perhaps. I’ve seen some pretty amazing 0-60 times with no rollout, though, from other users. So I wouldn’t put money on this.

Would you put money on your car getting the advertised time without rollout?
I’d put money on my car being able to do it.

 

[WilliamG]

Would you put money on your car getting the advertised time without rollout?
I’d put money on my car being able to do it.

My specific car? No. I’ve no idea what my car can do. Plus it has 20s.

 

[Knightshade]

For the last time, please show me where Tesla currently states their times are with or without rollout.

Since the posted times didn't change after they removed the * shown, it'd be incumbent on you to show they stopped doing something they admitted they were doing despite literally every bit of evidence not agreeing with you.


And since all actual calibrated testing shows for a fact they are still doing it you obviously can't do that.

Seriously- next time you pick a topic to troll, try something there's not scientifically measured data on maybe?

 

[Paddy3101]

Yes but I was meaning that it's an arbitrary curve rather than the software following the physical limits of the motor/inverter.

I don't think it's an arbitrary curve, I think for the AWD, its an 'ideal' curve across the speed range. Which is essentially, not a curve, but flat. At any speed, for a given throttle input, you will get the same linear power output.

If you could make a motor, with that exact curve, you would be very, very happy. Except, you can't. So the next best thing, is to give-up some potential from any peaks, that the system could produce, to give you the characteristic you want.

For the Performance version, however, you don't want to give up any of that performance, however, imperfect that makes it.

Performance Cars have always been flawed, the more performance you try to get out, the more flawed they become. However, it's those flaws that make them interesting.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I don't think it's an arbitrary curve, I think for the AWD, its an 'ideal' curve across the speed range. Which is essentially, not a curve, but flat. At any speed, for a given throttle input, you will get the same linear power output.

If you could make a motor, with that exact curve, you would be very, very happy. Except, you can't. So the next best thing, is to give-up some potential from any peaks, that the system could produce, to give you the characteristic you want.

For the Performance version, however, you don't want to give up any of that performance, however, imperfect that makes it.

Performance Cars have always been flawed, the more performance you try to get out, the more flawed they become. However, it's those flaws that make them interesting.

I think the optimal curve would be flat torque not flat horsepower. A flat horsepower curve would be lethal due to infinite acceleration at 0mph (if you get could the power to the ground). A flat torque curve gives the same maximum acceleration at all speeds.

 

[Daniel in SD]

My specific car? No. I’ve no idea what my car can do. Plus it has 20s.

The Performance model is only sold with the 20's now. The website says your car will do 3.2 seconds.

 

[Nocturnal]

I don't think it's an arbitrary curve, I think for the AWD, its an 'ideal' curve across the speed range. Which is essentially, not a curve, but flat. At any speed, for a given throttle input, you will get the same linear power output.

If you could make a motor, with that exact curve, you would be very, very happy. Except, you can't. So the next best thing, is to give-up some potential from any peaks, that the system could produce, to give you the characteristic you want.

For the Performance version, however, you don't want to give up any of that performance, however, imperfect that makes it.

Performance Cars have always been flawed, the more performance you try to get out, the more flawed they become. However, it's those flaws that make them interesting.

Arbitrary was a poor word choice. Artificial is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But this means no change in peak torque, and only maintenance of that peak torque to higher speed (meaning higher power).

You can kind of see this in the plots.

It looks like there was a very modest increase in the peak torque, but a more substantial bump in the 40-100 mph region this time.

Thanks!

Yes, looks like very modest increase in acceleration - would be hard to notice I would think.

Just in terms of “feel,” if above is actually the case the car won’t feel much faster from a stop - but it will pull for a bit longer before dropping off. Presumably Tesla is really trying to rectify that “molasses-like” passing performance of the Performance at highway speeds. Hopefully we'll see fewer complaints here about how slow the Performance is.

I'm betting it could be a bit better if my battery was warmed up, as I had just pulled out of my garage and still had a dotted line on regen (but not power).

Yes I would think so. If you were limited by the battery conditioning, I would think where it might help you would be closer to the power peak, so above 40mph. I wonder whether the lack of torque improvement I saw above 40mph with the last 5% update was due to my battery being a bit chilly (or maybe I just have a dud). Though it wasn't really cold...

So, it's possible there's actually a bit more boost in HP & Torque above 40mph than what you see in this initial run (it doesn't really look like a 5% HP increase to me but it is hard to eyeball and do the multiplication at the same time - would be pretty easy to check with your raw data). But the peak torque value you measure is likely pretty solid and represents the very minimal increase there that came with this update.

I guess when I get this update, I'll have to see whether I get any further improvement above 40mph or whether I'll still be somehow limited (which would mean I would see basically zero change). Hopefully it was just my cool battery!

 

[Paddy3101]

Arbitrary was a poor word choice. Artificial is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

Absolutely artificial. But so is the P3's. Just tailored to different parameters.

However, don't think there has been any cars produced in at least 4-5 decades that have had anything like an 'unconstrained' power delivery just down to 'natural', physical limits of the system. (If there has ever been?)

They are ALL tuned to the different market segments they are aimed at.

 

[diamond.g]

The Performance model is only sold with the 20's now. The website says your car will do 3.2 seconds.

*with rollout

 

[SleeperService]

I wonder whether the lack of torque improvement I saw above 40mph with the last 5% update was due to my battery being a bit chilly (or maybe I just have a dud). Though it wasn't really cold...

I don't know that it takes it being "very cold" to at least show dots on the regen. My car was in my garage, and had just finished charging less than an hour before I left the house. My garage was probably ~60 F this morning. I wouldn't consider that "cold" ...but I think the batteries and the BMS consider that cold. I don't know if power is reduced when there are regen dots or not, that's pure speculation on my part. Did you have regen dots when you tested the last update?

 

[Nocturnal]

I don't know that it takes it being "very cold" to at least show dots on the regen. My car was in my garage, and had just finished charging less than an hour before I left the house. My garage was probably ~60 F this morning. I wouldn't consider that "cold" ...but I think the batteries and the BMS consider that cold. I don't know if power is reduced when there are regen dots or not, that's pure speculation on my part. Did you have regen dots when you tested the last update?

I think power is only reduced when you have that snowflake icon on the battery meter, but don't quote me on that.

 

[NOLADriver]

@Nocturnal ....I seeee what you did there. haha....

Hopefully a slight reference to quite a few on here that have zero concept about drag racing or launching a car speaking like they have actual experience. Its funny when snowflakes fancy themselves a race car driver when they are behind the wheel of a vehicle that requires ABSOLUTELY ZERO skill to drive. I'd love to see them try to launch my Viper, or actually comprehend clutch management.

This thread is my favorite of them all.

 

[WilliamG]

I think power is only reduced when you have that snowflake icon on the battery meter, but don't quote me on that.

I think you only get the snowflake icon if your Tesla account is associated with hyper-sensitivity regarding rollout.