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P3D- vs P3D+

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#21
jjrandorin said:
We dont KNOW what tesla will do, but they absolutely CAN remove it...
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This is true, but in that case ALL of the 3P Stealth owners would be in the same boat - and perhaps even the 3P+ owners. It's not in my MVPA either! I've always thought that if it became a sufficient issue, Tesla could remove it (though I think it is pretty unlikely).


jjrandorin said:
written confirmation from tesla would NOT get it for a model 3 performance without performance pack
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Yeah, not sure you'd get it (written confirmation) with Performance pack either...certainly it is not the norm.

Personally, I definitely would not spend $5k extra today for the “insurance” that 3P+ provides. I’d only get that if I wanted the other stuff (many reasons to not want it). (I have a 3P+ but when I purchased it Track Mode was limited to that model only - which was the main motivation for getting the extra stuff.)

For many people it’s actually a $7k+ step up since it also requires cold weather wheels even if they aren’t planning to drive in snow.
 
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#24
I'd like to know where folks are hearing Tesla might remove track mode. My 2018 Stealth has it and if it were to disappear, well that would be annoying.

Edit: If there were some legal issue, Tesla could also check with owners to see what they are running tire-wise. That said, who is to say what tires are on the upgraded Performance cars anytime after delivery..
 
#25
Msjulie said:
I'd like to know where folks are hearing Tesla might remove track mode. My 2018 Stealth has it and if it were to disappear, well that would be annoying.
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No one is hearing that. The only thing people are hearing is: new owners are hearing from their salespeople that their 3P Stealths are coming without Track Mode. And then, of course, they are delivered with Track Mode.

That I think is a summary of the current situation.
 
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#26
Msjulie said:
I'd like to know where folks are hearing Tesla might remove track mode. My 2018 Stealth has it and if it were to disappear, well that would be annoying.

Edit: If there were some legal issue, Tesla could also check with owners to see what they are running tire-wise. That said, who is to say what tires are on the upgraded Performance cars anytime after delivery..
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I wasnt speculating about yours. I was speculating about those delivered NOW with the "new" model 3 performance without performance pack. Not those who got it last year, those who are buying them NOW at the fairly drastically reduced price. My speculation centers around the fact that:

1. Tesla CAN do it
2. Tesla owners have shown repeatedly as a group they DO.. NOT.. LIKE.. anyone getting anything tesla related for less than they did... Model 3 performance without performance pack purchasers last year paid a pretty hefty premium, especially compared to now. One way tesla could placate / differentiate would be to not install (or remove) track mode from these NEW model 3 performance without performance pack cars.
3. Since everything is tied to vin, it would be very simple for tesla to pick and choose removing this for the new cars, and leave it in place for previous purchasers.
4. Tesla employees are verbally telling people the new model 3 performance without performance pack cars come without track mode
5. People are taking delivery (have taken delivery) of said cars, and see it there in their menus, and seem to think that means it will be there forever.

Delving into the speculation again, I fully expect that people who have it on their cars purchased last year will keep it for the life of that car. I also think its possible that people who are taking delivery right now of these same type cars may or may not get to keep it.


EDIT: @AlanSubie4Life summarized a lot better than I did.
EDIT 2: I should just call it a "model 3 stealth performance" like others do. That doesnt bother me like calling it a "p3d-" or "model 3 performance minus" does.
 
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#29
kbecks13 said:
Didn't Tesla do this with the partial premium cars? They initially came with more features than they should've and were later downgraded via software update.
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Fairly sure the partial premium pricing and line item costs (indicating partial premium) were in the MVPA though. I haven’t gone and dug that up. I’d be surprised if the MVPA matched exactly with someone who had the premium interior.

If Track Mode were in the MVPA on some cars but not others it would be concerning. But according to Musk, it is a standard feature of the Performance trim level, which IS called out as “Long-Range AWD Performance” in the MVPA.

I think originally they may have wanted to keep Track Mode as a way to drive buyers to the highest trim level, but probably they found that offering it on the base Performance actually increased sales of AWD->P upgrades more than enough to make up for any cannibalizing of 3P+ sales. In other words: Track Mode definitely wasn’t the only reason people were buying the 3P+, and a lot of people weren’t buying Performance at all because the 3P+ wheels were inappropriate for their conditions.
 
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#30
kbecks13 said:
Didn't Tesla do this with the partial premium cars? They initially came with more features than they should've and were later downgraded via software update.
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I thought some of those SR cars came with more features than the online site/order sheet showed because Tesla sold the car before they were actually ready with the disabling of features in the car

Website for Performance car calls out Track Mode, but since I can't see any option to downsize it to non-performance brakes, etc hard to say if the website would have removed track mode as a feature

It's all silly, if they can make some more $ on an AWD + (stealth performance) why shouldn't they do it? If they want to differentiate more, why don't they call it AWD+ to indicate you get the acceleration but not the other goodies. Guessing because it makes ordering too complex..
 
#31
jjrandorin said:
Just think back to how long it took them to include it for people who bought the model 3 without performance pack previous. It was not released at the same time. My guess (and its just a guess) that there might be some sort of legal issue with providing a car with those top speeds and that handling without the tires capable of handling said tires and speed from the factory.
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Please stop this nonsense!

The 18" Michelin MXM4 Primacy tires that come on the base model are speed rated to 168 MPH. The P3D is speed limited to 162 MPH. You don't need "summer" tires, you need tires with an appropriate speed rating.

We dont KNOW what tesla will do, but they absolutely CAN remove it... and tesla employees are saying its not included so one should not expect it to be there, even if it IS there now.
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That's a real load of hogwash. You have provided zero evidence that Tesla has ANY reason to remove Track Mode from P3D-. It's not gonna happen. You are just trying to drum up FUD. Not only did Tesla give me Track Mode months after delivery, a few months after that they upped the top speed of my P3D- to 162 MPH. The car was previously speed limited to only 154 MPH. Tesla might give me more features and performance but they are not going to take any away without an airtight reason. That's not how they roll.
 
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#32
StealthP3D said:
Please stop this nonsense!

The 18" Michelin MXM4 Primacy tires that come on the base model are speed rated to 168 MPH. The P3D is speed limited to 162 MPH. You don't need "summer" tires, you need tires with an appropriate speed rating.



That's a real load of hogwash. You have provided zero evidence that Tesla has ANY reason to remove Track Mode from P3D-. It's not gonna happen. You are just trying to drum up FUD. Not only did Tesla give me Track Mode months after delivery, a few months after that they upped the top speed of my P3D- to 162 MPH. The car was previously speed limited to only 154 MPH. Tesla might give me more features and performance but they are not going to take any away without an airtight reason. That's not how they roll.
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I said "speculate". Speculation doesnt need "evidence", its opinion. There is a pretty large difference between speculation and opinion and what most here would call "FUD". Of course, your opinion that my speculation is FUD is just that, your opinion right? Im not attacking you for it, so I would appreciate if you also refrain from personal attacks.

thanks
 
#33
jjrandorin said:
I said "speculate". Speculation doesnt need "evidence", its opinion. There is a pretty large difference between speculation and opinion and what most here would call "FUD". Of course, your opinion that my speculation is FUD is just that, your opinion right? Im not attacking you for it, so I would appreciate if you also refrain from personal attacks.

thanks
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Chill dude. It's just that we don't need misinformation (like that the Michelin MXM4's aren't rated for high enough speeds for the P3D). In other words, there is NO reason why Tesla would remove Track Mode from the P3D-. Speculate all you want but there's nothing to it.
 
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#34
Is a true that Tesla started selling P3- on the menu in other countries? I thought a I saw a post that stated Track Mode was not available on those cars. Maybe just more confusion or it is the same thing here in the states where they take an AWD and just flat the right firmware on it at delivery or something.

These ambiguous feature lists are what give me a lot of heartburn when dealing with Tesla. This is the only auto manufacturer that makes you question what features actually come with your car. Every other auto manufacturer has published a detailed feature chart for each of their trims.
 
#35
raptor5244 said:
Is a true that Tesla started selling P3- on the menu in other countries? I thought a I saw a post that stated Track Mode was not available on those cars. Maybe just more confusion or it is the same thing here in the states where they take an AWD and just flat the right firmware on it at delivery or something.

These ambiguous feature lists are what give me a lot of heartburn when dealing with Tesla. This is the only auto manufacturer that makes you question what features actually come with your car. Every other auto manufacturer has published a detailed feature chart for each of their trims.
Click to expand...

Yep. Here in Australia the site made it clear that track mode was exclusive to the P3D+. I've ordered a P3D- though. It will be interesting to see if I get it.

They have since dropped the P3D- here as well.
 
#38
astrowunder said:
SHOCKED, SHOCKED that Tesla delivery folks are still giving wrong information about the cars. </sarcasm>
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It's not just Tesla, I knew more about the last 6 new cars we purchased than the actual car salesman and only two of them were Tesla. It's shocking how little salesman know about the cars they sell. They might have browsed one brochure about it (then again, they might not have). The Tesla people I've come into contact were somewhat knowledgable about their products (but I still knew more from having spent more time learning about them).

This was also true when I bought a wood stove at a shop that specializes in woodstoves. It was true when I bought a yard shed from a company representative selling the sheds at Costco. It was true when I bought snow skis from a ski shop. It's almost ALWAYS true. Salespeople are rarely as knowledgable about the products they sell as someone who has actually spent a bit of time researching the various features/differences online. Of course, it shouldn't be true but it's really rare to run into a salesperson who is the exception to this rule (although it does occasionally happen).
 
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